Clash of the titans, Dhoni vs Bevan

[Prince EWS]

Watch this for a laugh...

Dhoni Six, Doesnt bother looking, with commentary!!!! - YouTube

Haha I remember seeing that live; was one of the funniest things I've ever seen on a cricket field. Jono's reaction in the thread at the time was gold too.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, Adam Hollioke producing chin music against Bevan must have occur ed in the outer-space. Both are weak against short ball, but Dhoni is being tested by it, while Bevan was not. And whenever he was tested in international cricket, Bevan came second best of the bowler.

Obviously not the same Adam Hollioake who Michael Bevan averages 108 against when he features in the game.

 

[benchmark00]

You can always tell people are just regurgitating stereotypes without having actually watched the cricket in question when the Bevan/short ball thing comes up.

It should definitely be noted that in a Bevan v Dhoni thread, the short ball is not something Bevan detractors should be that keen to use a yardstick...

It's interesting. How good of a career do you think Bevan would have had if he had a longer run and more opportunities at test level?

 

[Prince EWS]

It's interesting. How good of a career do you think Bevan would have had if he had a longer run and more opportunities at test level?

WAC.

If given a longer run, which I don't think he necessarily deserved given the other options at Australia's disposal and his early failure, I think he could've had an excellent career and averaged well in excess of 45. I definitely think he was a better batsman than, for example, Michael Vaughan - there you go.

 

[benchmark00]

vvitstl. Controversial.

 

[Trichromatic]

Dhoni is much better at playing short-pitched bowling than Raina, agreed. It certainly gives him a leg up in the Dhoni v Raina thread.

Dhoni is easily the best batsman of short-pitched bowling in this Indian ODI batting line-up.

 

[benchmark00]

Dhoni is easily the best batsman of short-pitched bowling in this Indian ODI batting line-up.

Kohli is much better than him for starters.

 

[Trichromatic]

Dhoni for such matches?

At Sydney, January 17 (day/night). England won by seven runs. Toss: England.

Australia were accused of mismanagement after finishing eight short with four wickets in hand. Commentators asked why they hadn't burnt more wickets in pursuit of victory, while Bevan, normally one-day cricket's pin-up, was under fire for not scoring a single four in 45 not out. Hick, with a career-best 108, and Hussain, with a maiden fifty, provided the bricks and mortar of England's 282, the third-highest total at Sydney, adding 190 together. Still, Mark Waugh and Lehmann looked capable of making history. But Gough was thrifty, conceding 16 in his final four overs, and Australia, needing 15 off the last, could not hit Giles to the boundary. It was an unhappy return for captain Steve Waugh, playing his 250th international but his first in this series: he dropped Hick on 23 and was out first ball.

and Bevan for this?

6th Match: Australia v India at Kuala Lumpur, Sep 22, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

While Bevan didn't find himself in many high required run rate situations during finish, Dhoni had to face very few low scoring games which India struggled to chase.

 

[Senile Sentry]

I did an analysis of matches where Bevan and Dhoni did significant contributions in a run chase and stayed not out at the end (significant contribution = +30 runs)

Bevan's stats :

Year	Team	Runs	Balls	 SR 	 Bevan	Target	Result	 Req Rate Aus
					  RR 		
1994	NZ	39	63	 61.90 	 3.71 	207	Won	 4.14 
1996	WI	78	88	 88.64 	 5.32 	173	Won	 4.02 
1997	Pak	79	142	 55.63 	 3.34 	182	Won	 3.64 
1998	Ind	75	127	 59.06 	 3.54 	228	Won	 4.56 
1998	Pak	57	83	 68.67 	 4.12 	218	Won	 4.36 
1999	Eng	56	76	 73.68 	 4.42 	153	Lost	 4.25 
1999	Eng	45	59	 76.27 	 4.58 	283	Lost	 5.66 
1999	WI	35	50	 70.00 	 4.20 	250	Won	 5.00 
1999	Zim	77	107	 71.96 	 4.32 	201	Won	 4.02 
2000	Pak	31	76	 40.79 	 2.45 	185	Lost	 3.70 
2001	Ind	33	52	 63.46 	 3.81 	249	Won	 4.98 
2001	Ind	87	113	 76.99 	 4.62 	267	Won	 5.34 
2001	Pak	56	84	 66.67 	 4.00 	258	Won	 5.16 
2001	NZ	102	95	 107.37  6.44 	246	Won	 4.92 
2003	SL	45	79	 56.96 	 3.42 	212	Won	 4.24 
2003	Eng	74	126	 58.73 	 3.52 	205	Won	 4.10 
2003	Ban	40	62	 64.52 	 3.87 	148	Won	 2.96 
2003	Ind	41	43	 95.35 	 5.72 	304	Lost	 6.08

Dhoni's

Year	Team	Runs	Balls	 SR 	 Dhoni	Target	Result	 Req Rate Ind
					  RR 		

2005	NZ	37	27	 137.04   8.22 	279	Won	 5.58 
2005	Zim	67	63	 106.35   6.38 	251	Won	 5.02 
2005	SL	183	145	 126.21   7.57 	299	Won	 5.98 
2005	SL	45	43	 104.65   6.28 	262	Won	 5.24 
2006	Pak	72	46	 156.52   9.39 	289	Won	 5.78 
2006	Pak	77	56	 137.50   8.25 	286	Won	 5.72 
2007	SL	67	74	 90.54 	  5.43 	231	Won	 4.62 
2007	Ban	91	106	 85.85 	  5.15 	251	Won	 5.02 
2007	Pak	45	45	 100.00   6.00 	256	Won	 5.12 
2007	SL	61	66	 92.42 	  5.55 	247	Won	 4.94 
2007	WI	46	34	 135.29   8.12 	159	Won	 7.23 
2007	NZ	35	65	 53.85 	  3.23 	157	Won	 3.14 
2009	Aus	71	95	 74.74 	  4.48 	230	Won	 4.60 
2009	Ban	101	107	 94.39 	  5.66 	298	Won	 5.96 
2009	Ban	38	45	 84.44 	  5.07 	167	Won	 3.34 
2011	SL	91	78	 116.67   7.00 	275	Won	 5.50 
2011	Eng	35	31	 112.90   6.77 	299	Won	 5.98 
2011	Aus	44	58	 75.86 	  4.55 	270	Won	 5.40 
2011	SL	58	69	 84.06 	  5.04 	237	Won	 4.74

There were 18 instances when Bevan was not out and contributed significantly in a run chase. However there were just 2 instances when the required run rate at the start of the match was over 5.5. And both these instances Bevan saw his team losing out. Not only that, Bevan's SR and RPO in these cases, barring very few exceptions, were much lower than that of the required rate which suggests that his work was made much easier by the performances of his colleagues.

Dhoni's stats are awesome in this regard. All the 20 instances when he was not out and made a score of 30+ in a chase, he saw India through! This is including the epic World Cup final performance as well. In almost all the cases he has a RPO significantly exceeding the required rate. Also the chases were much tougher (7 instances where India had to chase over 5.5 p.o and all 7 won as well)

 

[smash84]

good analysis but did you factor in the pitch conditions and bowling attacks that they faced?

 

[Trichromatic]

good analysis but did you factor in the pitch conditions and bowling attacks that they faced?

and it would great if someone can do rough analysis of cases of low scoring games when Dhoni and Bevan finished the game.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Even with scores less than 30, Dhoni's never been not out and India have lost chasing, yeah? Unbelievable stuff.

On this whole chasing thing, what was the percentage of teams winning chasing in ODIs in the 1990s vs 2000s?

 

[Prince EWS]

Dhoni is easily the best batsman of short-pitched bowling in this Indian ODI batting line-up.

Look I don't even agree with that at all but even if I gave it to you, it'd similarly only give him a leg up in the Dhoni v rest of India's batsman thread.

 

[Dan]

Definitely needs era adjustment. I'd wouldn't make judgements based off 5.5rpo+ chases when Dhoni's average target was 250, and Bevan's was 220.

The highest target Bevan had to chase was 138% of the mean score, whereas Dhoni's was 120% of his mean target.


Statistics alone don't prove much anyway; they're far too open to manipulation and sample size issues.

 

[Spark]

I find it astonishingly hard to believe that MS Dhoni is anywhere near as good a player of short pitched bowling as, say, erm, Sachin Tendulkar. Just to name an obvious name.

 

[Trichromatic]

I find it astonishingly hard to believe that MS Dhoni is anywhere near as good a player of short pitched bowling as, say, erm, Sachin Tendulkar. Just to name an obvious name.

Sachin hardly plays ODIs these days.

 

[Viscount Tom]

He's skipped a tour but last I checked he was playing ODIs in Aus over the winter and only missed those against England due to a foot injury.

 

[ankitj]

Pretty neat work Senile Sentry.

BTW, didn't Dhoni tie one game where he stayed not out earlier this year against SL in the tri-series in AUS? India needed 4 runs of the last ball but only manage to run 3.

 

[Prince EWS]

Bevan's not personally perpetuating the dark ages of cricket with an absurd opposition to UDRS.

Game, set, match.

 

[Shri]

You are letting your Fy form affect your CW performance.