I believe in Jeetan Patel thread

[Kippax]

You do have to appreciate Benchy that our current batting crop, even down into the U19's, is deeply, deeply average.

But no, I don't think Vettori's appetite is very high for a late-stage reinvention as a Test No. 6 from what I've gathered.

 

[benchmark00]

You do have to appreciate Benchy that our current batting crop, even down into the U19's, is deeply, deeply average.

But no, I don't think Vettori's appetite is very high for a late-stage reinvention as a Test No. 6 from what I've gathered.

I know kiwi batting stocks aren't mountain high, but you've gotta start somewhere and at least try. I'm sure someone is getting around in FC cricket who could do as well as Vettori at #6, it's not a very high threshold.

I'm a big admirer of Vettori as a cricketer, the way he goes about it is great, but he's not a test #6 and NZ are wasting time if they use him there.

 

[SteveNZ]

If Jesse finally finds his feet, there's our No.5. Then we need to identify a six, which we thought was going to be Brownlie - but he can't play spin to save his life. It could be Flynn, if he finds a better method than 'sweep at all costs' or it could be someone like a Latham. Hell, it could be Ronchi!

 

[Prince EWS]

There were quite a while in which Vettori's output in the middle/lower order comfortably made him one of the best batsmen in New Zealand, and batting him at 6 would've been perfectly fine. Those days definitely seem over, however, as is evident from the stats put forward and, perhaps even more telling, watching him bat. His bowling has declined even further than his batting to a point where New Zealand definitely have enough quality in their seam stocks (and a few javelin attempts a day from Kane) to leave him out, and maybe even enough of a threat on turners in Jeets in leave him out on those, where he's never been very effective anyway.

In the end though, with Ryder out for the time being the alternatives for #6 are Franklin and Brownlie...

 

[straw man]

Should rename this the "I believe in Daniel Vettori thread"

Personally I would find a way to keep Vettori in the test team now and for the next two years unless his performance falls off a cliff. I've been a big believer in him batting at six (which was justified at one point) though of course starting to be concerned that this form slump is permanent. And even moreso, that he doesn't see himself as a batsman and doesn't really want that role. Ideally he would always have batted at seven, but we've never had a wicketkeeper or bowler who can bat six to make that work (or for that matter, another one who's comfortable at eight).

At least we have all of Boult, Southee and Bracewell in the side as our pace attack now - would not want to see Vettori as a bowler in the side in place of one of them. So if it's Vettori vs Wagner/Patel as a bowler, it's not quite as clear cut that Vettori should be left out.

For the Sri Lanka tests I'd be strongly tempted to retain Vettori at 6 so that can play both him and Patel*. Vettori's style of batting works well on slower wickets. If Vettori doesn't score runs then he would not bat at 6 for the following series. And if he doesn't take wickets then..........

* unless the pitch is going to be a total pudding in which case we don't need three seamers

 

[Hurricane]

Should rename this the "I believe in Daniel Vettori thread"

Personally I would find a way to keep Vettori in the test team now and for the next two years unless his performance falls off a cliff. I've been a big believer in him batting at six (which was justified at one point) though of course starting to be concerned that this form slump is permanent. And even moreso, that he doesn't see himself as a batsman and doesn't really want that role. Ideally he would always have batted at seven, but we've never had a wicketkeeper or bowler who can bat six to make that work (or for that matter, another one who's comfortable at eight).

At least we have all of Boult, Southee and Bracewell in the side as our pace attack now - would not want to see Vettori as a bowler in the side in place of one of them. So if it's Vettori vs Wagner/Patel as a bowler, it's not quite as clear cut that Vettori should be left out.

For the Sri Lanka tests I'd be strongly tempted to retain Vettori at 6 so that can play both him and Patel*. Vettori's style of batting works well on slower wickets. If Vettori doesn't score runs then he would not bat at 6 for the following series. And if he doesn't take wickets then..........

* unless the pitch is going to be a total pudding in which case we don't need three seamers

tl;dr version - give him another couple of chances then pull the plug.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

You just know it's not going to happen like that though. Look forward to a nice drawn out death of mediocrity.

 

[Hurricane]

His bowling has jumped the shark. Batting may recover though.

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

Ok if you're dishing out stats.... Vettori averages about 27 for the last three years in test cricket. If you think it's good to have a bloke who has averaged that low, whose primary skill is bowling AND who is about 33 years old in your top six then I'm sorry you're watching a different sport than I am.

He should be 8.... 7 max.

Fair call, but how many of them are averaging > 27 hmm?

 

[Kippax]

I know kiwi batting stocks aren't mountain high, but you've gotta start somewhere and at least try. I'm sure someone is getting around in FC cricket who could do as well as Vettori at #6, it's not a very high threshold.

Not sure we could name an uncapped guy that a consensus of CW's Kiwis would back for three scores higher than 96 (against top 8's) in his first three years tbh. "Vettori only has one ton at six, those numbers are soft", but still.

If we had to stake our CW lives on one we'd probably go Latham with not much conviction at all. We get this with the ball in the trade btw.

 

[straw man]

Not sure we could name an uncapped guy that a consensus of CW's Kiwis would back for three scores higher than 96 (against top 8's) in his first three years tbh. "Vettori only has one ton at six, those numbers are soft", but still.

If we had to stake our CW lives on one we'd probably go Latham with not much conviction at all. We get this with the ball in the trade btw.

Hrmm yeah I'm not as much of a fan of Latham as some others on here seem to be - yes he has some ability and is a prospect, however has a long way to go. To be playing internationalzz at age 20 requires someone truly exceptional (like perhaps Williamson) and Latham's not that - give him a couple of years.

Really hope a decent batsman emerges this season of domestix (Broom? Murdoch? Brodie? One of SteveNZ's Auckland mates? Carl Cachopa?). And at least one of Franklin, Vettori, Flynn, or even Watling scores some runs at 5 or 6 for NZ. Don't have great hopes for a Ryder return except perhaps T20s.

 

[_Ed_]

If we had to stake our CW lives on one we'd probably go Latham with not much conviction at all. We get this with the ball in the trade btw.

Fantastic!

 

[benchmark00]

Broom should be a certainty for the next tour to the sub continent, I've heard he's great on the sweep shot

 

[SteveNZ]

Hrmm yeah I'm not as much of a fan of Latham as some others on here seem to be - yes he has some ability and is a prospect, however has a long way to go. To be playing internationalzz at age 20 requires someone truly exceptional (like perhaps Williamson) and Latham's not that - give him a couple of years.

Really hope a decent batsman emerges this season of domestix (Broom? Murdoch? Brodie? One of SteveNZ's Auckland mates? Carl Cachopa?). And at least one of Franklin, Vettori, Flynn, or even Watling scores some runs at 5 or 6 for NZ. Don't have great hopes for a Ryder return except perhaps T20s.

I really rated Josh Brodie but he got injured and also suffered through the same issues Tim McIntosh did - wasn't a part of limited overs for his province so had to endure sub-standard pitches at club level and not a lot else between four-day campaigns (and a reduced A competition). He'd do well to go to Australia between times. Remember he scored a big double hundred in the Plunket not so long ago - I can't remember the last guy who did that and didn't go on to play for NZ.

Who to watch this summer? Probably the usual suspects, can't think of a bolter anywhere. I think Watling will score a truckload, de Boorder will continue to push for the top side then it's interesting how the likes of Broom, Flynn will bounce back.

 

[Howsie]

Yeh, I've been a big fan of Brodie for sometime too. I still believe he needs to move away from Wellington if he's ever to make it to the next level though, they just have no idea when it comes to developing players.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Broom should be a certainty for the next tour to the sub continent, I've heard he's great on the sweep shot

Ha-haah.