Phil Jaques

[Swanny]

I've just read a report saying that Northants are now continuing legal action to ensure that he can play next year as an England qualified player. I personally think given his track record this is disgusting behaviour and shows exactly the problem which the English counties at the moment. They need to stop believing they are individual entities on there own and see they are a feeder system for the national team. Without the ECB cash Northants wouldn't even survive as a professional organisation.
Yet despite this they are trying to ensure they have more than 2 players not eligible to play for England. I think 2 overseas players is a good number, however that should mean the other 9 members of the team are England qualified. Jaques has said he'd Australian and thus if he wants to play for them it should be as an overseas player.
If he'd said hes trying to qualify for England on the residancy rule than fine, but he hasn't, he stated quite clearly hes an Aussie, yet still wants to play here as a domestic player. Sorry but get rid of him, exactly the sort the game doesn't need.

[marc71178]

My sentiments exactly.

But unfortunately he has the EU law on his side :!(

[luckyeddie]

Absolutely, Swanny, but as Marc pointed out, the law is the law.

At one time, footy clubs were restricted regarding the number of non-nationals in their side, but the EU came down on that like a ton of bricks. We're stuck with it.

[Swanny]

There is still a limit on the number of non-EU nationals which clubs are allowed to play in the Premiership(or there was before this season,i'm assuming it still holds). However in footballs case the situation is less important because there are more teams.92 professional clubs means youngsters will get a game somewhere and if they are good enough, they will shine through and come up the ranks.
However in crickets case we only have 18 teams. If youngsters can't get a game because of older players they have really nowhere else to go. It s sucha short termist view its unreal. An EU passported Australian like Jaques who can 'do a job' will always get the nod over an inconsistent English batsman who has a small chance of becoming the next Brian Lara.
I know the counties have the law on their side, but are there no options? The ECB lets not forget effectively bank rolls teams such as Northants. Could threats/gentle persuasions to be used against EU passport holders who have no intention of playing for England( I see these as the problem, not players like Pieterson who desperately want to play for England and are trying to qualify by resisdance).
Something must be done to remind the counties that they are the breeding ground for Test cricket, and should stop pretending like the County Championship is like the Premiership, most of them can't even support themselves.

[Rik]

Originally posted by Swanny
There is still a limit on the number of non-EU nationals which clubs are allowed to play in the Premiership(or there was before this season,i'm assuming it still holds). However in footballs case the situation is less important because there are more teams.92 professional clubs means youngsters will get a game somewhere and if they are good enough, they will shine through and come up the ranks.
However in crickets case we only have 18 teams. If youngsters can't get a game because of older players they have really nowhere else to go. It s sucha short termist view its unreal. An EU passported Australian like Jaques who can 'do a job' will always get the nod over an inconsistent English batsman who has a small chance of becoming the next Brian Lara.
I know the counties have the law on their side, but are there no options? The ECB lets not forget effectively bank rolls teams such as Northants. Could threats/gentle persuasions to be used against EU passport holders who have no intention of playing for England( I see these as the problem, not players like Pieterson who desperately want to play for England and are trying to qualify by resisdance).
Something must be done to remind the counties that they are the breeding ground for Test cricket, and should stop pretending like the County Championship is like the Premiership, most of them can't even support themselves.

You raise a good point. But it seems like Northants have no interist in helping the England team. They prepare dustbowls every year because of their spin attack and they are willing to take the ECB to court about one player. I think the ECB should make it quite obvious who's in charge, who they answer to and make it obvious they arn't going to take it. There are many ways they can make Northants' lives hell which are perfectly within the law.

[luckyeddie]

Originally posted by Rik
You raise a good point. But it seems like Northants have no interist in helping the England team. They prepare dustbowls every year because of their spin attack and they are willing to take the ECB to court about one player. I think the ECB should make it quite obvious who's in charge, who they answer to and make it obvious they arn't going to take it. There are many ways they can make Northants' lives hell which are perfectly within the law.

Absolutely.

Just move Phil Sharpe's caravan on to their car park. He's usually to be found just up the road in Derby, although he's unlikely to go via Nottingham because he doesn't know where that is.

[Langeveldt]

Phil Jacques, a typical example of a player who is in the game purely for the Pound Sterling..

He knows full well he is blocking English talent coming through, as do Northants, and the lack of desire to play for his country would madden me if i was an aussie.. (not that they need him)

[Neil Pickup]

How about funding quotients?

The counties have maximum grants, and they get a percentage thereof based on the number of games played by English qualified players.

Off last year this would vary from 65-90% I think.

[age_master]

i think you people are putting it a little out of proportion.


18 teams x (12 first team players) = 216 - subtract the internationals and there is still 36 so thats still 180 players.


in the Pura milk cup over here there are 6 teams - thats 72 players - england would still have more than 100 more places for their talent to come through than Australia.

stop whinging about small things like this and look things that will actually get some more talent coming through the ranks

btw why are you complaining about them developing spinners, i would say england could use a couple more spinners

[marc71178]

It's the principle here - he is blatantly bending rules which haven't existed in previous years (witness Symonds) and although it is technically legal, it is certainly not moral.

Originally posted by age_master
btw why are you complaining about them developing spinners, i would say england could use a couple more spinners

IMO no point considering the conditions we face.

Case in point is Giles - as soon as he's bowling on a friendly wicket, he gets good figures (something he has done consistently through his career) - his figures outside Asia are fairly similar to the likes of Harbajan and Kumble.

[age_master]

Originally posted by marc71178
It's the principle here - he is blatantly bending rules which haven't existed in previous years (witness Symonds) and although it is technically legal, it is certainly not moral.

fair enough comment, i suppose we just have to accept that people go around bending the rules, and if people want to go to that much effort for something reletivley small like this,its not worth making to much fuss over, while immoral i think it is something that is accepted in todays society and we cant really do to much about - unfortulatley the law doesn't include morals and common sense, whoch means that it can fairly easily be exploited, perfect example - public liability

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
Case in point is Giles - as soon as he's bowling on a friendly wicket, he gets good figures (something he has done consistently through his career) - his figures outside Asia are fairly similar to the likes of Harbajan and Kumble.

Yeah but in Bangla both our spinners couldn't buy a wicket in conditions thought of as perfect for spinners...

[marc71178]

If they were so perfect, how come Harmison, Hoggard and Johnson each got a large number?

[Rik]

Originally posted by marc71178
If they were so perfect, how come Harmison, Hoggard and Johnson each got a large number?

And how come the spinners didn't in spin-friendly conditions?

Seriously, it's like politics, I ask one question, you answer another

It's because the Bangladeshi's can play spin but do not have the techniques to cope with pace bowling. Just keep your line and length together and you'll get a sackfull.

[marc71178]

It's much more interesting than Jaques though!