New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Fuller Pilch]

Heinrich Malan would be great. Did really well with CD, coached Auckland, and is now with Ireland. Wikipedia says he is under contract until 2025 though.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

We need someone like a Rixon. Must've had a great eye for talent. Picked a very young Fleming as captain (replacing Germon), sorted out and reintegrated Cairns and Parore so they became world class, picked an unknown 18 year old Vettori after just 2 or 3 first class games and a very young McMillan as well, got the fielding sorted and won a series in England plus left the team in a much better place than he got it.

Made a very poor team pretty decent.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

And fly Morne Morkel across from Oz (where he lives now) to work with our bowlers (and help select them!!!!). He's coaching the WF bowlers at the World T20 so is already in the NZC system.

Perhaps he could also teach Tom Latham how to deal with genuine pace.

 

[slippy888]

Harsha Boygle should be canceled the other week he said New Zealand get all there cricketers from South Africa

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Heinrich Malan would be great. Did really well with CD, coached Auckland, and is now with Ireland. Wikipedia says he is under contract until 2025 though.

That's who I was hoping we'd go for when Stead got the job. Can't remember if he actually applied ... think he did?

 

[jcas0167]

That's who I was hoping we'd go for when Stead got the job. Can't remember if he actually applied ... think he did?

Yeah, it was a two horse race between those two.

 

[NZTailender]

Good lord, what was wasted opportunity

Though to be fair, Steads cv at that point wasn't terrible from memory

 

[Ghost]

Not for the first time, I'll say that David White needs to be ousted. But, now, the sooner Stead can bugger off too, the better.

Ollie White dislikes this

 

[straw man]

I actually have greater concern for the batting than the bowling, at least in the medium to long term. Bowling wise we've got Smith, Fisher, Sears, Sheat, Shipley, O'Rourke, Foulkes etc. Not to mention KJ. Tickner is universally regarded as a mystifying selection, and he still far from embarrassed himself in this game. Sure there'll be injuries to some of those guys, but I see enough talent there to be reasonably optimistic.

By comparison, on the batting front I'm not sure there's anyone who can be relied on to replace the runs that will be departing when Kane and Conway retire in 3 or 4 years time (and Mitchell, Blundell and Latham will all be hanging up their caps around the same time). That Rachin and Phillips, a couple of guys who average 35 and 40 respectively are supposed to be the backbone of NZ's future test line-up is far more concerning than the bowling stocks.

You're right that we might have a batting crisis in 3-4 years time, so to prevent the same thing happening as in bowling NZ need to gradually introduce younger players into the side, starting now. There's also the extra dimension now that someone like G Phillips could be lost to FC and therefore test cricket if he isn't given a spot soon, as he'll continue to pick up T20 contracts elsewhere. Succession planning is a must.

However the bowling cliff that's been approaching for the last 2-3 years is on us right now and it doesn't seem like much succession planning was done other than 'hand over to Kyle Jamieson'. Also have to wonder whether it's just bad luck that all of Jamieson, Smith, Sears and Fisher are injured, or whether NZ is doing something wrong in training and conditioning.

For next little while Southee and Henry a given, I'd add Shipley as the highest priority next uninjured cab off the rank. Tickner if we could somehow pair him with the world's best fast bowling coach - wishful thinking. Duffy can be called upon if needed. Get the new coach to ask Boult if he would rethink next time contracts come round as we could use another 2 years from him. And get the next group fit, somehow.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Can you sell it? Work sounds like a much better option.

I was going with my brother, but he's come down with covid to make things even worse, so ended up flogging the tickets on trademe for a couple of hundy lol ... I'll accept that as a trauma reimbursement from NZC.

 

[Jezroy]

I’m finding it really hard watching this team at the moment. It feels like circa 2009 all over again. 3rd innings lollapses and mainly pedestrian bowling that couldn’t run through a side were the feel then.

But now… I just can’t even explain it.

The fact you know that Tom Latham will fail against the big teams? But I think they do have to keep on picking him, as I don’t necessarily think there’s anyone better.

Conway opening because it’s better for the team to have SOMEONE who can score runs being at the top.

Kane not in God Mode anymore.

Nicholls stinking up the joint. Imagine getting Conway at 4, and someone else opening… that would be helpful. Who though…? That’s the problem. But if you stick with Conway opening, you bin Nicholls fora number of options (Young should be given a good trot IMO).

Mitchell has shown enough to have the #5 slot. But his bowling is no CDG, or even Astle/McMillan by the looks.

Blundell great at 6, but IMAGINE him at 7 with some bowlers who can bat around him… think Vettori/Nash types.

Our balance is then out because they’re trying to get a good batting 7 or 8 all rounder or two in. Macewell has been okay at times… but again it seems to be that whole “REMEMBER THAT SUPER SMASH GAME AND THE ODI IN INDIA?!?! HE CAN DO THAT ALL THE TIME IN ALL THE FORMATS!!!”. No. No he can’t.

Then Wagner, who so many on this forum LOVE, but can see he’s poked.

Southee who should definitely still be there. Henry is now important to the test side, and showing some good stuff (especially the improvement in his batting).

Boult bye bye - they aren’t picking you for tests at least. KJ will surely struggle to get on the park consistently/with the threat that he had previously.

The team just seems so out of balance, with no guts on selection, and a few players who just shouldn’t be there.

You've got your Smith, Philips, Ravindra, Duffy (why he didn’t get a run at MM I don’t have any idea), even Tickner (did better in MM than I thought he would) floating around. But it just feels very much like seats shuffling the seats on the Titanic right now.

 

[NZTailender]

I think losing CdG and Wagner in relatively quick succession are the biggest things to hurt this team. Until Wagner became a permanent fixture it did feel like the bowling attack was "Boult and Southee will own them with the new ball and thats how we get 20 wickets." Having that option not only helped the team, it helped Boult and Southee. If theres one piece of criticism I'd level at those two (mainly Southee), is that they didn't really have a lot of plans once the ball was old. The difference in bowling averages between when Wagner featured and when he didn't is quite large (although it can be argued Wagner was the one to miss out on non-seam friendy pitches i.e. the SC, hence Boult and Southee's higher averages)

With Wags: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...al1=span;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

Without: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...al1=span;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

Adding CdG to the mix with his wibbly wobblers: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...al1=span;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

Without: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...al1=span;team=5;template=results;type=bowling

Boult doesn't suffer as much, and I think that's because he always had more tools at his disposal than Southee - but man, does Tim's average really jump.

tl;dr, having variety in the bowling attack to different jobs is a good thing

 

[Flem274*]

The only issue with the Southee/Boult combo was they flopped in Aus and SA. They've been excellent everywhere else. Wagner definitely limited the damage in Australia.

 

[NZTailender]

The only issue with the Southee/Boult combo was they flopped in Aus and SA. They've been excellent everywhere else. Wagner definitely limited the damage in Australia.

They were very good but being the only effective bowlers in the side, essentially, was more of a weight and a burden. Wagner's presence allowed them to achieve some excellence.

 

[Jezroy]

The only issue with the Southee/Boult combo was they flopped in Aus and SA. They've been excellent everywhere else. Wagner definitely limited the damage in Australia.

Australia for sure they’ve been largely disappointing, but the SA sample size is a tough one. And includes the 45 series. Then another 2 match series where it was basically 1 test and 1 innings.

That’s all we’ve had there for 16 odd years

 

[cnerd123]

Is NZ cricket dead

 

[straw man]

it's just resting

 

[Flem274*]

Is NZ cricket dead

Just waiting for a mate.

 

[the big bambino]

Last update a few days ago. Assuming the follow on is going well.

 

[Athlai]

Last update a few days ago. Assuming the follow on is going well.

And Rachin Ravindra took wickets and tonned up. The apocalypse is delayed yet again