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Thread: New Zealand doom and gloom thread

  1. #76
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    And how bout this for optimism: We'll win a test against England at home next year
    Yeah, I think we might. Remember we won the Hamilton Test in the 2008 tour with a bowling attack of Martin, Mills, Patel, Oram, Vettori.

  2. #77
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    The only thing I will contribute to the discussion is that I don't think williamson got out to a tough nut in the 2nd dig. His general off side play needs better execution (except for his back foot drive which is excellent).

    I am still of the belief that Guptil's dismissal caused a chain of unneccessary dismissals. Yadav would never have bowled that nut to Baz unless he had've tasted success against Martin etc.

    I have no general comments on the health of new zealand cricket other than something needs to be done to get Ryder back into the team. He would be an upgrade (if playing his best) on either Franklin or Flynn.

    Why did Ryder have to have troubles with alcohol.
    1) Ross is Boss.
    2) See point 1.

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  3. #78
    Cricketer Of The Year wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Ryder gets back into the team if he earns it. We are not giving him a free ride, that's the worst possible way to go about it. It's not like he has to do much, anyway, if he's really so talented it shouldn't be hard to string together few decent innings in our domestix.
    Last edited by wellAlbidarned; 05-09-2012 at 02:34 AM.
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  4. #79
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Ryder gets back into the team if he earns it. We are not giving him a free ride, that's the worst possible way to go about it. It's not like he has to do much, anyway, if he's really so talented it shouldn't be hard to string together few decent innings in our domestix.
    No doubt you are right. I just think as a New Zealand cricket team we have to meet him half way if he is willing to clean up his act.


  5. #80
    Cricketer Of The Year wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    I don't know about the "halfway" thing. We're really not asking much of him.

  6. #81
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    I don't know about the "halfway" thing. We're really not asking much of him.
    What is his current status has he been stood down or has he voluntarily stood down - or both?

    Half way means if he gets sober and gets some 50s bring him back.

  7. #82
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Ryder gets back into the team if he earns it. We are not giving him a free ride, that's the worst possible way to go about it. It's not like he has to do much, anyway, if he's really so talented it shouldn't be hard to string together few decent innings in our domestix.
    Watching Jesse Ryder in domestic cricket can be hilarious. He seems to get really bored with how **** the bowlers are, and treats them all with abject contempt...which quite often leads to him tossing his wicket away with an awful slog.

    I can't see him coming back for the SL test series, but he does have plenty of PS matches to make his case before the SA tour, if indeed he makes himself available for that tour. If he averages 45+ (remember it'll be early season green tops), then it may be worthwhile giving him a callup. However, even if he shows a good attitude and strong form, I'd rather keep him out of the action until England come touring next year.

    I do think New Zealand Cricket needs to communicate very carefully with Ryder. Talk to him about when he wants to come back, when NZC thinks he should come back, and what he has to do to achieve that.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 05-09-2012 at 05:08 AM.
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  8. #83
    State Captain Meridio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    What is his current status has he been stood down or has he voluntarily stood down - or both?

    Half way means if he gets sober and gets some 50s bring him back.
    Am reasonably sure he's made himself unavailable for selection at the moment. However, he has picked up a Wellington contract so presumably he will be playing for them from the start of the domestic season; whether that means he'll then become eligible again I don't know. Anyway, we can't just give him a free ticket back into the national team, he needs to earn it both through performance on the field and attitude off it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    The only thing I will contribute to the discussion is that I don't think williamson got out to a tough nut in the 2nd dig. His general off side play needs better execution (except for his back foot drive which is excellent).
    I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with his off side play. He's technically as good as anyone; if I had a criticism of him it's that IMO he's let the bowlers bowl at him as they please, rather than looking to put pressure on them - not necessarily through aggressive shots, but by looking to pick up singles rather than dead-batting in defence. Means the bowlers can bowl as they want, surrounded by as many catchers as they want.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    The only thing I will contribute to the discussion is that I don't think williamson got out to a tough nut in the 2nd dig. His general off side play needs better execution (except for his back foot drive which is excellent).

    I am still of the belief that Guptil's dismissal caused a chain of unneccessary dismissals. Yadav would never have bowled that nut to Baz unless he had've tasted success against Martin etc.

    I have no general comments on the health of new zealand cricket other than something needs to be done to get Ryder back into the team. He would be an upgrade (if playing his best) on either Franklin or Flynn.

    Why did Ryder have to have troubles with alcohol.
    Think you're being a touch harsh to Gup. It was a full bunger he didn't really pick up, it wasn't like he tried to hoick it or do anything stupid. Just didn't see it like he would have wanted to. A ball like the one that Yadav bowled to Brendon could have come at any time.

  10. #85
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    Think you're being a touch harsh to Gup. It was a full bunger he didn't really pick up, it wasn't like he tried to hoick it or do anything stupid. Just didn't see it like he would have wanted to. A ball like the one that Yadav bowled to Brendon could have come at any time.
    I'm an expert at getting out - and I've never been bowled by a full toss - (wait yes once it was a big looper (his slower ball) and I tried to hit it into next week.)

    He got beaten for pace really - but he wasn't bowling 150kms or 155kms. I don't know what to say about it - I felt it was an important dismissal.

  11. #86
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meridio View Post
    I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with his off side play. He's technically as good as anyone; if I had a criticism of him it's that IMO he's let the bowlers bowl at him as they please, rather than looking to put pressure on them - not necessarily through aggressive shots, but by looking to pick up singles rather than dead-batting in defence. Means the bowlers can bowl as they want, surrounded by as many catchers as they want.
    If I had $10 for every dismissal he has to off side shots I would have enough for a good night out. At first I used to think he was using bad judgement in picking his shots now I just think it is his execution.

  12. #87
    Cricketer Of The Year wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I'm an expert at getting out - and I've never been bowled by a full toss - (wait yes once it was a big looper (his slower ball) and I tried to hit it into next week.)

    He got beaten for pace really - but he wasn't bowling 150kms or 155kms. I don't know what to say about it - I felt it was an important dismissal.
    I don't see how he could've been beaten for pace, he was a good few years early into the shot. Just tried to clobber it and forgot all about technique, was a lousy shot all around. Don't see how it excuses any of the others, though.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I'm an expert at getting out - and I've never been bowled by a full toss - (wait yes once it was a big looper (his slower ball) and I tried to hit it into next week.)

    He got beaten for pace really - but he wasn't bowling 150kms or 155kms. I don't know what to say about it - I felt it was an important dismissal.
    I just really think he didn't pick it up. Sure, Yadav being a bit quicker didn't help. I've bowled a few guys with full peas, especially early in their innings. Sub-conciously, you're not looking for a ball there. Hence why beamers cause such issues. Later in an innings you can deal with it better but early on it can get you, and certain sitescreens can cause issues too.

    Gup does have a magnificent way of finding different ways to get out.

  14. #89
    Hall of Fame Member Hurricane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNZ View Post
    I just really think he didn't pick it up. Sure, Yadav being a bit quicker didn't help. I've bowled a few guys with full peas, especially early in their innings. Sub-conciously, you're not looking for a ball there. Hence why beamers cause such issues. Later in an innings you can deal with it better but early on it can get you, and certain sitescreens can cause issues too.

    Gup does have a magnificent way of finding different ways to get out.
    Ok fair dues Steve that is a good answer - you would hope though a few throw downs would warm you up though.

    @Welabidarned - as a club cricketer than bats number 4 - when my openers get out for **** all and I walk in to bat with the score 7 for 2, the bowlers are bowling absolute jaffas at me because they believe in themselves. When I walk in and the score is on 30 the batting is a lot easier. And much easier on 70.
    No way Yadav bowls that beauty to McCullum if Guptil had've kept his one out.
    And my theory is ross would've scored more if he could have walked out to bat 15 overs later.

    Cricket is a team game - not the just the sum of the scores of the individual batsman. The openers create momentum for the inning.

  15. #90
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    Can't argue with your logic. Yadav did bowl a steaming pile in the first innings and probably got some momentum out of a wicket, albeit an undeserved one.

    Unfortunately Ross got out sweeping to Ashwin so I don't think coming in later would have done anything about that. He, and everyone else, are vulnerable at any time.

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