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New Zealand doom and gloom thread
- Thread starter Bahnz
- Start date
Skyliner
International 12th Man
Here's some doom and gloom. Pakistan are coming to NZ this summer for a tour which includes no test matches, after they were here last summer for 3 ODI's. The Wellington ODI will apparently be at the Basin Reserve, as David White says Pakstan are not a significant draw card and the Cake Tin would be embarrassingly empty.
So why get Pakistan here for an ODI tour then? Instead of having Pakistan at the hallowed Basin Reserve for one day, why not play a test match for 5 and cash in? Test cricket is on a high in NZ, grounds like Hagely and the BR are packed, and White wants to fill up the schedule with ODI's at places like the Basin?!?!
When are we going to get Pakistan here for some meaningful matches, and not the rubbish this muppet White is serving up.
So why get Pakistan here for an ODI tour then? Instead of having Pakistan at the hallowed Basin Reserve for one day, why not play a test match for 5 and cash in? Test cricket is on a high in NZ, grounds like Hagely and the BR are packed, and White wants to fill up the schedule with ODI's at places like the Basin?!?!
When are we going to get Pakistan here for some meaningful matches, and not the rubbish this muppet White is serving up.
Skyliner
International 12th Man
Moreover, why no tests on our tour of Zimbabwe this year. The FTP had us down to play 2 tests, and now we are apparently playing no tests. The Zim cricket board released the tour dates, we arrive on 28 July and leave on 10 August. No tests, just short format crap. Has White gutted our schedule in order to get Brendon through to the Aussies series's? If so it's a scandal. No tests on our tour to South Africa either. Meanwhile everyone focuses on White scrapping one test from our home series against Aus, and the penny hasn't dropped about everything else that is going on.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Tests against Zimbabwe with no Brendan Taylor would be futile. It is a public service touring there at all. What is the point in breaking their spirits by playing tests and hammerong yhem that noone will watch or pay for?
I feel for Zimbabwe cricketers. I really do. I want them to retain their Taylors and Ballances and be a good team. But right now, they need to develop. Not be pummeled.
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Started this in the NZ tour of Aus update thread, but this really belongs in here.
Thought I'd look at the FTP programme as agreed at November 2014, as that will presumably be fairly close to what unfolds over the next few years.
It's really very bad for New Zealand. 27 tests over the next four years against top 8 opposition. By way of comparison, Sri Lanka will be playing 49, South Africa 46, Pakistan 41 and the West Indies 34. Yes even WI will be playing more test cricket than us.
Looking at the schedule, it seems like the scheduling strategy has moved away from a traditional home summer (with 2 touring sides visiting for fairly lengthy periods) to as many short sharp tours as possible (4 in each of the next 3 years). And of course short tours will usually mean that test matches get binned.
I initially didn't pay too much mind to the latest FTP programme, but recently David White has made comments that appear to corroborate parts of it, and that's got me extremely nervous.
More cricket than ever for Black Caps | Radio New Zealand News
I know that things are proceeding on a bilateral basis from now on, so we should take the 2014 FTP with a grain of salt.But what's worrying me is that there's so little room for expanding the amount of test cricket that New Zealand can play. There's really no opportunity to play test matches during the short limited overs tours that we have scheduled over the next few years. Test matches are quite long afterall, and even a two match series with a warmup game will take 3 weeks to finish. If you've got a team visiting for 3 weeks to play 5 ODI's and a couple of T20's, there simply isn't the time to play any test cricket - unless you can all of the limited overs stuff. Something about that strikes me as unlikely at the moment. Having done a bit of thinking about it, we might be able to squeeze in another 5 or 10 tests over the next 4 years. However, those extra tests would be predicated on the currently abandoned CLT20 window being filled with bilateral tours - and I've already heard rumours that the BCCI are planning on filling it up with another IPL competition instead.
If this schedule turns out to be accurate - then I can't help but feel that - once again - we've been lied to by the NZC. Martin Sneedon was interviewed several times in early 2014 (around the time of the Big 3 takeover) saying that New Zealand were about to see a major increase in the amount of test cricket that we play as a result of the change up. Furthermore the NZC has made repeated statements about how test match cricket is our prime focus and wanting to increase the amount that we play. This schedule screams exactly the opposite.
Again, none of this is confirmed, and things could change over the next 6 months or so. But on the face of it, this is pathetic. This is very close to being the greatest New Zealand test side of all time, it's certainly the most entertaining to watch, and despite that we'll be playing the smallest amount of test cricket that we have in decades. Previously I've stated that I didn't mind having the test series v Australia truncated to 2. Now I'm furious about it.
Thought I'd look at the FTP programme as agreed at November 2014, as that will presumably be fairly close to what unfolds over the next few years.
It's really very bad for New Zealand. 27 tests over the next four years against top 8 opposition. By way of comparison, Sri Lanka will be playing 49, South Africa 46, Pakistan 41 and the West Indies 34. Yes even WI will be playing more test cricket than us.
Looking at the schedule, it seems like the scheduling strategy has moved away from a traditional home summer (with 2 touring sides visiting for fairly lengthy periods) to as many short sharp tours as possible (4 in each of the next 3 years). And of course short tours will usually mean that test matches get binned.
I initially didn't pay too much mind to the latest FTP programme, but recently David White has made comments that appear to corroborate parts of it, and that's got me extremely nervous.
More cricket than ever for Black Caps | Radio New Zealand News
I know that things are proceeding on a bilateral basis from now on, so we should take the 2014 FTP with a grain of salt.But what's worrying me is that there's so little room for expanding the amount of test cricket that New Zealand can play. There's really no opportunity to play test matches during the short limited overs tours that we have scheduled over the next few years. Test matches are quite long afterall, and even a two match series with a warmup game will take 3 weeks to finish. If you've got a team visiting for 3 weeks to play 5 ODI's and a couple of T20's, there simply isn't the time to play any test cricket - unless you can all of the limited overs stuff. Something about that strikes me as unlikely at the moment. Having done a bit of thinking about it, we might be able to squeeze in another 5 or 10 tests over the next 4 years. However, those extra tests would be predicated on the currently abandoned CLT20 window being filled with bilateral tours - and I've already heard rumours that the BCCI are planning on filling it up with another IPL competition instead.
If this schedule turns out to be accurate - then I can't help but feel that - once again - we've been lied to by the NZC. Martin Sneedon was interviewed several times in early 2014 (around the time of the Big 3 takeover) saying that New Zealand were about to see a major increase in the amount of test cricket that we play as a result of the change up. Furthermore the NZC has made repeated statements about how test match cricket is our prime focus and wanting to increase the amount that we play. This schedule screams exactly the opposite.
Again, none of this is confirmed, and things could change over the next 6 months or so. But on the face of it, this is pathetic. This is very close to being the greatest New Zealand test side of all time, it's certainly the most entertaining to watch, and despite that we'll be playing the smallest amount of test cricket that we have in decades. Previously I've stated that I didn't mind having the test series v Australia truncated to 2. Now I'm furious about it.
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Flem274*
123/5
the agribusiness meme might not apply to mchesson as much as we originally thought, but it has always been the perfect description of NZC
NZC have very rarely been a competent setup and cricketing success has usually come on the backs of teams and individuals rather than what NZC does. Look at what happened once they gave up on the bowling academy - we have bowling talent to burn.
nothing i have seen suggests this era is any different. baz, hesson, sandle, edgar, bond and mcmillan are increasingly coming across as the core group behind the success and it is happening in spite of, not because of, what NZC do. once the core leaves is kane or whoever has no one else around him, we will crash back down again because NZC are and almost always will be incompetent.
i mean name one good thing david white has done in his tenure, then name something justin vaughan ever did, then look at the long list of their stuff ups.
i wish i got paid megabucks to be terrible at my job.
NZC have very rarely been a competent setup and cricketing success has usually come on the backs of teams and individuals rather than what NZC does. Look at what happened once they gave up on the bowling academy - we have bowling talent to burn.
nothing i have seen suggests this era is any different. baz, hesson, sandle, edgar, bond and mcmillan are increasingly coming across as the core group behind the success and it is happening in spite of, not because of, what NZC do. once the core leaves is kane or whoever has no one else around him, we will crash back down again because NZC are and almost always will be incompetent.
i mean name one good thing david white has done in his tenure, then name something justin vaughan ever did, then look at the long list of their stuff ups.
i wish i got paid megabucks to be terrible at my job.
Skyliner
International 12th Man
It's the 'being lied to by NZC' aspect of the whole thing that irks me the most. If they had just said nothing, I would have accepted the paucity of tests as just being NZs usual lot in cricketing life. But after NZC were the first sheep in the pen regarding the takeover of the game by the big 3, and telling us that their prime role in submitting and getting the other sheep to fall in line was going to pay big dividends....I feel the sell out was for nothing. The fact Aus are (or appear to be - fingers crossed - nothing confirmed yet) giving us 3 tests in Aus this year would seem to have everything to do with the fact that the BCs are currently strong and competitive. They do need us this summer, particularly with WI in such an abject state. But this series is just an outlier in the sea of short format cricket we are playing.
I feel the ego and arrogance of White keenly; he tries to glibly keep the NZ public sweet, and when you judge reality against his words, it doesn't stack up.
I feel the ego and arrogance of White keenly; he tries to glibly keep the NZ public sweet, and when you judge reality against his words, it doesn't stack up.
Days of Grace
International Captain
I can't help but feel that despite the tremendous success of the World Cup, which included a lot more people taking interest in the game and getting us more attention on the world stage, that it will come at a cost.
The administrators will want to squeeze every last drop out of the ODI success story and Joe Public will not mind one bit. Because Joe Public is on the bandwagon and will happily hand over money for his Sky fee, ticket, and overpriced hot-dog. Joe Public is not, and has never been, a true fan of test cricket.
The administrators will want to squeeze every last drop out of the ODI success story and Joe Public will not mind one bit. Because Joe Public is on the bandwagon and will happily hand over money for his Sky fee, ticket, and overpriced hot-dog. Joe Public is not, and has never been, a true fan of test cricket.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
But Joe Public goes a long way to paying the salaries of the players. So Joe Public needs to be given what he wants. So I do not mind losing a third test for 3 ODI matches against Australia. I understand what NZC is doing. If they were smart. They would start the tour with the ODI matches and if the games are exciting or NZ win - Joe Public may watch some of the tests. But they will follow the test series.
But NZC needs more games in all formats. Two test tours are crap. Home and away. And with Kane and Boult performing so well, McCullum at the strings, now is a time where Joe Public could be initiated to Test Cricket. Instead of being that boring version of the game where NZ fail miserably and look awful. NZC is now in a position where there are several world superstars emerging in the team. Boult is not Hadlee but he nevertheless exciting and one of the best around at the moment, Kane could be Crowe, but there are others people want to see like McCullum, Anderson and Milne (in ODI) and so on.
The World Cup and the Tour of England so far is great advertising of the NZC team to other nations so as to get more games. In all formats.
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fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Joe Public is a fickle bastard though, always ready to move on the minute he gets bored - best not to elevate his importance above that of the diehards
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Joe Public means more to the coffers than the cricket die hards who will watch international T20 matches while complaining that its not test cricket.
fredfertang
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I was always told that money can't buy happiness, and whilst that may be an oversimplification, the principle is a sound one
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Money is not the most important thing in the world. Love is. NZC should love money and pay for more cricket.
Players are professional cricketers. They are not solely playing for love. If given the choice between being a rich cricketer and a poor cricketer, which would you take? When the boards of cricketing countries are in financial difficulty, what happens to the team results on the field, typically? What happens to the players?
International Cricket has become a business. Business decisions need to be made. More pyjama cricket could in effect pay for more test cricket. Certainly put some more funding into the domestic game and make NZ stronger in depth and sustaining quality international cricketers. New Zealand should be playing as many test and ODI matches as Australia, India and South Africa do.
Packer changed international cricket forever. I'm glad that he did.
And I certainly don't mind if McCleanghan and Corey Anderson through ODI cricket pay for BJ Watlings test cricket contract or pay for Ben Wheeler's central contract should he have or get one as he develops let alone trickling money into domestic cricket benefit. BJ Watling is unlikely to win an IPL payday. Think about it.
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Flem274*
123/5
For all the talk of cricketers playing for cash as much as love of the game, I've yet to see a kiwi cricketer shirk his test match duty. in fact the core goals and philosophies of this test team were made in the aftermath of 45 all out in a "**** this, this must end today" moment.
the players in the new zealand test team are not money whores, they love being the new zealand test team and baz has said many times he wants to leave something behind. the ipl pays their bills easily and gives them the freedom to pursue what they really want for the rest of the year.
the players in the new zealand test team are not money whores, they love being the new zealand test team and baz has said many times he wants to leave something behind. the ipl pays their bills easily and gives them the freedom to pursue what they really want for the rest of the year.
CaptainGrumpy
Banned
Thats great except not everyone has an IPL contract. Not everyone who has one can expect to have one in two years time. Plus, the players are not putting their money back into domestic cricket in any way shape or form other than maybe playing longer (should they still have an IPL contract but even then the likes of Gilly, Warney and Hussey only played domestic T20s post international retirement while having an IPL contract). Nor should they be expected to put their own IPL dollars into domestic cricket.
IPL is not paying BJ Watling's bills.
NZC cannot say to players - oh you have your IPL money. We do not need to look after you.
I do not think that the West Indian players are money whores. But sport's is a short career. How many cricketers could play more domestic cricket but retire because they need a better paying job or to start a career post cricket?
Soime fans just seem to struggle that to professional international cricketers, cricket is their job and a means to set themselves up for life. A comfortable life. Domestic cricketers aspire to being international cricketers.
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Flem274*
123/5
BJ Watling earns what, 100-150k from NZC?
That's a pretty sweet deal, especially when you factor in match fees.
NZC is a multi-million dollar sporting body. Through the world cup, normal length odi series, tv rights to sky etc they bring in a lot of money. plus they get their poverty loans from the ICC every so often. David White and the board probably earn at least just as much if not more than BJ does.
It's not the salaries of BJ Watling that are at risk here, and definitely not those of the board. if NZC have a bad year it will be the grassroots coaching and womens cricket that get hit and the public doesn't give a **** about either as long as little johnny gets to play for his school or club every weekend.
edit *sigh* i just realised i've defended a tongue in cheek final comment from the arguments of our best friend. that's what i get for skim reading...
That's a pretty sweet deal, especially when you factor in match fees.
NZC is a multi-million dollar sporting body. Through the world cup, normal length odi series, tv rights to sky etc they bring in a lot of money. plus they get their poverty loans from the ICC every so often. David White and the board probably earn at least just as much if not more than BJ does.
It's not the salaries of BJ Watling that are at risk here, and definitely not those of the board. if NZC have a bad year it will be the grassroots coaching and womens cricket that get hit and the public doesn't give a **** about either as long as little johnny gets to play for his school or club every weekend.
edit *sigh* i just realised i've defended a tongue in cheek final comment from the arguments of our best friend. that's what i get for skim reading...
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