New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Bahnz]

It's undeniably daft scheduling. No disrepect to SRL, but the NZ public was bored of them by the end of last-years absurd 7 ODI series. Can't imagine too many will turn up the following summer to watch SRL again, especially given that Sangakkara will have retired by then.

 

[Gnske]

Apparently a third test against Aus is going to be scrapped for some ODIs, how infuriating.

Why can't two test series just die, why can't scheduling just die? By the time the home series vs NZ starts, since 2011 Aus will have played England in tests 15 times, India 12 times, South Africa 6 and not counting World Cups/Champs Trophy, not a single ODI/t20/test series against NZ in that time.

Kill me.

 

[SteveNZ]

Apparently a third test against Aus is going to be scrapped for some ODIs, how infuriating.

Why can't two test series just die, why can't scheduling just die? By the time the home series vs NZ starts, since 2011 Aus will have played England in tests 15 times, India 12 times, South Africa 6 and not counting World Cups/Champs Trophy, not a single ODI/t20/test series against NZ in that time.

Kill me.

This is ****e. I could understand the 7 ODIs ahead of a World Cup but less is more now (I know that doesn't stand up from a financial standpoint). Why not commit to a stronger Test schedule with the potential to end up in a Boxing Day Test or with a stronger billing in India, the main part of summer in England etc?

Incidentally, if we can just remove all mention of Jesse that'd be great. Let the Poms do the absent renegade rubbish. Jesse won't play for NZ again and every single member of the national side is comfortable with that. The culture they're running with now doesn't need a potential nuisance.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

This is ****e. I could understand the 7 ODIs ahead of a World Cup but less is more now (I know that doesn't stand up from a financial standpoint). Why not commit to a stronger Test schedule with the potential to end up in a Boxing Day Test or with a stronger billing in India, the main part of summer in England etc?

Incidentally, if we can just remove all mention of Jesse that'd be great. Let the Poms do the absent renegade rubbish. Jesse won't play for NZ again and every single member of the national side is comfortable with that. The culture they're running with now doesn't need a potential nuisance.

I wish Jesse would stop taking wickets. He would bat so perfectly at 5 or 6 with McCullum. this wicket taking in County Cricket could confuse him.

 

[SteveNZ]

I wish Jesse would stop taking wickets. He would bat so perfectly at 5 or 6 with McCullum. this wicket taking in County Cricket could confuse him.

Yeah it's hellishly frustrating but I just don't pay attention to what he's doing anymore, and I imagine Hesson and co are the same. Trust me when I say he's played his last game for NZ.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Yeah it's hellishly frustrating but I just don't pay attention to what he's doing anymore, and I imagine Hesson and co are the same. Trust me when I say he's played his last game for NZ.

He just needs to be managed better and for someone in the side to be his friend who isn't Doug Bracewell.

 

[SteveNZ]

He just needs to be managed better and for someone in the side to be his friend who isn't Doug Bracewell.

Appreciate that's your viewpoint but there comes a time where someone's had too many cracks, and you're risking the environment if you give him another go. Anderson and Neesham are talented cricketers without baggage, and your man Munro can bat there too if he's up to it.

Jesse still hasn't shown any interest to want to be managed better and meet anyone halfway. He's happy in the UK, we're happy without him.

 

[Immenso]

You'll see Steve that I was good little pupil up the thread and subscribed to the thought you are currently putting across.

When ranking the top 6 bats in order; Jesse didn't enter my mind, not a deliberate thought, just isn't really a factor anymore so forgot about him.

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah it's hellishly frustrating but I just don't pay attention to what he's doing anymore, and I imagine Hesson and co are the same. Trust me when I say he's played his last game for NZ.

Yeah this. Our hour of need was the WC & the fact Jesse blew us off then, it was always going to be his 'last hurrah'.

Besides, as you said in the previous post, his petulant teenage behaviour is just too far away from the utter professionalism and 'all for the team' culture this current side embraces.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

You don't know the guy and the **** he's had to put up with. It's fair to say that some bridges have been burned along the way, but the pariah the press make him out to be isn't the guy that I've met.

 

[SteveNZ]

You don't know the guy and the **** he's had to put up with. It's fair to say that some bridges have been burned along the way, but the pariah the press make him out to be isn't the guy that I've met.

I'm not so sure that's true. The guy had a minder on his nights out at the Lincoln Academy in his late teens, and still had one 10 years later in the national team. What else can you do?

Bearing in mind I don't think Jesse is a bad person. No one in life decides 'I could be a good person who makes all the right decisions and does the best thing for the team etc...but nah I'd rather be divisive, a bit disruptive, piss people off and do my own thing.' They become a product of their environment, which Jesse was with a horrible upbringing with a raging alcoholic for a father who then abandoned him.

Many efforts have been made to accommodate him and they didn't work. He's a 30-year-old who is mortgage free, likes his life in the UK and back here in domestic cricket, has a strong group of friends, enjoys his life and I don't believe has too many regrets. We're now a very strong international side with a group of guys pulling in the same direction. I think both parties are happy without trying to enter into another unhappy marriage.

 

[Zinzan]

You don't know the guy and the **** he's had to put up with. It's fair to say that some bridges have been burned along the way, but the pariah the press make him out to be isn't the guy that I've met.

Nah that's BS tbh Heath. Nobody is saying 'lock em up and throw away the key' .. we're talking about whether the NZ cricket door should be open for him.

You seem to be suggesting that because we don't intimately know the bloke, that as NZ cricket fans, we have no right to speculate on whether he should be given another chance at national level or to be entitled to comment on his 'piss-poor' behaviour & indiscretions while representing NZ in the past.

He could well be the nicest bloke in NZ, that's not the point here.. it's whether he's 'fit' (mentally, physically, professionally & emotionally) to play international cricket & for me it's many a bridge too far.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

No, I couldn't give a tinker's cuss whether people think he should be selected for NZ or not. I'm just keen to avoid spurious conversation about a guy's character and whether the representation of some of his indiscretions have been fair and disinterested. That's a completely different discussion, but I don't see there's any need to cast aspersions on a person's character without knowing the facts.

Apart from that **** White. Cast what you like in his direction.

 

[Zinzan]

Again though and tbf ..I think we all know enough of the facts to be able to comment on his past behaviours with a reasonably clear lens.

Whilst there may indeed be some very sound underlying reasons behind these behaviours that we don't quite know, understand or appreciate, one thing is for sure.... and that is even the biggest Jesse advocate out there wouldn't deny he's had enough chances and attempts of support offered to him from NZ cricket.

Once again, nobody is saying the chap is a bad human being or has a bad bone in his body, but surely we're entitled to call it as it is and say his pasts behaviours as a International cricketer have been ****, whether there's deep-seeded reasons for them or not.

This doesn't mean btw that the odd headline hasn't been sensationalised and or misrepresented somewhat, as we all know what journalists/media can be like, but I don't think fans are missing the 'big picture' on this one.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

I completely disagree with the sentiment that the media has fairly represented his character. Completely. ****, I've made bigger **** ups in my life than Jesse Ryder but at least every random **** on the street doesn't have an ill-informed view of those **** ups. I really pity the poor bastard. It's really no surprise that he's much more interested in playing in England where people have no idea of his past (given my recent discussions with Essex fans at the County Ground (now known as the 'ECG' - feckers)) and his every move isn't dissected by the national press. Quite frankly, he should probably stay there as it'd be better for him in the long run.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I completely disagree with the sentiment that the media has fairly represented his character. Completely. ****, I've made bigger **** ups in my life than Jesse Ryder but at least every random **** on the street doesn't have an ill-informed view of those **** ups. I really pity the poor bastard. It's really no surprise that he's much more interested in playing in England where people have no idea of his past (given my recent discussions with Essex fans at the County Ground (now known as the 'ECG' - feckers)) and his every move isn't dissected by the national press. Quite frankly, he should probably stay there as it'd be better for him in the long run.

The English fans would know a little.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH-8Pr3jwEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpP8S8sU_p0

 

[wellAlbidarned]

whether what happened with Ryder was his fault, the management's fault, or a combination is utterly irrelevant. The point is that the relationship is clearly beyond repair and there's no reason to go back there.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

whether what happened with Ryder was his fault, the management's fault, or a combination is utterly irrelevant. The point is that the relationship is clearly beyond repair and there's no reason to go back there.

If the relationship is damaged beyond repair, then the NZ Cricket team needs to take part of the blame.

I feel robbed as a fan of NZ Cricket of Jesse's talents and I don't think its solely Jesse's fault.

 

[Zinzan]

I completely disagree with the sentiment that the media has fairly represented his character. Completely. ****, I've made bigger **** ups in my life than Jesse Ryder but at least every random **** on the street doesn't have an ill-informed view of those **** ups. I really pity the poor bastard. It's really no surprise that he's much more interested in playing in England where people have no idea of his past (given my recent discussions with Essex fans at the County Ground (now known as the 'ECG' - feckers)) and his every move isn't dissected by the national press. Quite frankly, he should probably stay there as it'd be better for him in the long run.

I just agreed with you that there's no doubt been some 'sensationalism' from the media along the way which would have likely exaggerated events, but I don't think we can pretend that he took the individual responsibility required by an international sportsman. Like you, I had more than my fair share of ***-ups in my late teens/early 20s, but neither or us played cricket for NZ and the spot-light comes with the territory.

Like Captain C, I feel a little 'robbed' as a fan, and perhaps that's unfair. The guy's an extraordinarily talented cricketer.

 

[SteveNZ]

I completely disagree with the sentiment that the media has fairly represented his character. Completely. ****, I've made bigger **** ups in my life than Jesse Ryder but at least every random **** on the street doesn't have an ill-informed view of those **** ups. I really pity the poor bastard. It's really no surprise that he's much more interested in playing in England where people have no idea of his past (given my recent discussions with Essex fans at the County Ground (now known as the 'ECG' - feckers)) and his every move isn't dissected by the national press. Quite frankly, he should probably stay there as it'd be better for him in the long run.

I don't think anyone is saying the media fairly represented his character. I'm no fan of the vultures in the media and I'm not about to defend them...but they've probably represented fairly his destructiveness in terms of how his behaviour has affected our national side. I've read positive pieces around Jesse, especially in the lead-up to his boxing stuff, comebacks and 'no-drinking' periods. Trust me when I say that during some of those no-drinking periods, the skip outside his front door might've represented a different story. At the end of the day, the media machine is set up for sensationalism and the 'he's a decent bloke' angle doesn't sell papers/earn clicks.

In Essex, no cares enough about a county cricketer to care to write what he's up to. If he were to qualify and play for England, that would change pretty smartly.

The only way I'd call him a poor bastard is that he didn't play in another era. Modern professionalism requires more than he was willing to give. That doesn't make him a victim.