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New Zealand doom and gloom thread

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
His hypothesis (and it remains a work-in-progress) indicates New Zealand batsmen feel more comfortable or insulated being subject to restrictions or parameters on how they play the game. Those might include fielding restrictions for power plays and a cap of 10 overs per bowler. Limited overs therefore becomes manageable; unlimited overs remains a step too far.

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Its hard to tell what Baz means by all of this. So I can't really comment. If he is saying NZ benefits by only having to face 10 overs per bowler then I agree. If he is saying they benefit from fielding restrictions then I am not so sure that helps our batting all that much. I usually see a decent number of fielders inside the circle in tests.

Would like to have a longer explanation of Baz's views basically. He may have some good theories.
 

wellAlbidarned

International Coach
Short answer - he thinks that our batsmen get caught in two minds far too often in tests, wheras LO largely eliminates this problem.
 

Flem274*

123/5
After thinking about it more, most of the poorest batting displays during the test series came from test specialists. Brownlie against spin, Fulton's leaves and Rutherford's compulsiveness through the offside are worrying.

KW and Taylor didn't set the world on fire and McCullum was awful, but now I mostly agree with Hurricane the format change isn't a major part of the story here.

Speaking of KW, I think being the New Zealand number three is arguably the hardest job in test cricket. Should it come as any surprise to us an inexperienced batsman isn't firing consistently?

Moving back to ODI cricket, while I find Ronchi playing for New Zealand squicky and I don't particularly rate his technique against the new ball, I think he should be persisted with until the end of the Champions Trophy. If we are going to experiment, two ODIs is too short a time to make any conclusions. After the tournament we will have a much better perspective on Ronchi's suitability to opening.

If Ronchi fails, we have the option to either bring in Latham as the opener/keeper and accept he might not immediately get comfortable, bring Watling into the middle order since the opening experiment failed with him as well (and bring in another opener), or McCullum moves higher to either five or opener (not ideal) and Ronchi bats at six. I suspect New Zealand will either bring in Watling to open or push McCullum to five, but I would either bring in Latham to open or put Watling at five (and make Latham open), depending on how Grant Elliott goes in the Champions Trophy.
 

Days of Grace

International Captain
Why not Kane?

Basically opens anyway. Has a good technique and will time the ball well into gaps, which would complement Guptill's power game.

Watling at three.

Failing that, I'm hoping Rutherford or Ryder will come good.


In picking your top three, you have to think of what the team goal is for the first 15 overs.

Is it merely to see off the new ball and keep wickets in hand, go after the bowling, or a combination of both?
 
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straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Why not Kane?

Basically opens anyway. Has a good technique and will time the ball well into gaps, which would complement Guptill's power game.
You're talking ODIs right? Might be worth a shot for Williamson to open there - iirc he's done it in a few T20s.

Def don't want him opening in tests though. Though if he had success opening in ODIs, NZ cricket being what it is, he'd end up opening in tests anyway :/
 

Flem274*

123/5
Given a full deck I would open with Guptill and Ryder.

Since Ryder will probably never play for New Zealand again it's a moot point.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
It is a mystery to me why Ruthers is not good at List A. But just based on how he travels in T20s I would say he will end up being our established opener by the time the world cup comes around.

He looks the goods - has shots all around the ground and scores quickly. His shot execution is as good as lathams (this is meant to be praise) but unlike Latham Ruthers has a better off side game.

I have no idea who should open for the Champions Trophy right now but if I were the selectors I would be experimenting with a new opener for the next game and I would be open to suggestions even some of them out of the box - Latham/Elliot/Franklin/Fulton/Rutherford

Nothing wrong with opening with Kane as he is already going in early right now - I just wonder if it might hurt his development as he is still young. There is no denying that he has been a work in progress since his initial duck against Praveen Kumar and TumTum writing him off.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
That thing about Latham not having any offside play is just a figment from first impressions of lusty bottom-handed mows against Zimababwe and HRV bowlers I think tbh. Has a very pretty cover drive and square drive, and if anything is far too willing to get his cut/square dab away from too tight a line.

Rutherford doesn't pull, his play of spin will prove to be really poor, his lack of a discerning game sense is ****, everything about him is geared toward width creation for his favourite area. Shut that down (or give him a short extra cover or a cover sweeper as the English started doing), he's really a pretty crass and easily neutralised player.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Rutherford reminds me of Phil Hughes mk I a bit. I think someone else has said as much before because I remember PEWS wanted to bet Hughes would average more than Rutherford when they weren't even doing a comparison. I think Rutherford could do worse than studying the shiny new technical adjustments his Australian brother from another mother has developed. I haven't seen much of it personally but posters who know what they're talking about when it comes to batting (like PEWS in fact) rate it.

Or he could just develop a pull shot.

Agreed on Latham btw Kippax. I've always thought he was offside dominant personally. I'm not sure where the legside mower perception has come from.
 
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Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
That thing about Latham not having any offside play is just a figment from first impressions of lusty bottom-handed mows against Zimababwe and HRV bowlers I think tbh. Has a very pretty cover drive and square drive, and if anything is far too willing to get his cut/square dab away from too tight a line.

Rutherford doesn't pull, his play of spin will prove to be really poor, his lack of a discerning game sense is ****, everything about him is geared toward width creation for his favourite area. Shut that down (or give him a short extra cover or a cover sweeper as the English started doing), he's really a pretty crass and easily neutralised player.
Meet me in the long term bets thread in 5 minutes.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Yeah you two do all the hard work with the search function digging it so I can jump in with a bet I thought of today.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Its come from an ODI game where they bowled a foot outside off stump to him and he was clueless.
What game was it? I'm trying to remember when he has played after Zimbabwe. West Indies?

In the Plunket Shield highlights he loves cover. It's a very prolific area for him.
 

Flem274*

123/5
On another note the contracts must be coming very soon because the major associations have to do theirs at the end of this month.

Where's your money?

Rutherford
Fulton
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
McCullum, B.
Watling
Guptill
Latham
Ronchi
Franklin
Southee
Boult
Bracewell
Wagner
Vettori
Martin, B.
Mills
McClenaghan
McCullum, N.

Lock it in. I would pick a few different names but I think the above is what we will get.
 
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Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah Nethula, KvW, Nicol, Flynn, Cartin, some pretty easy cuts here. I can't easily identify the guy you've got who will be shafted for Ellis tbf, Latham or Ronchi I guess.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
1st July NZC Contracts
[Offered / Announced]


8th July Last day to [Accept / Decline] NZC
Contract (NZC contracted players must
also declare their MA for 2013/14 season
by this date)


16th July First player Transfer Window closes (for
players to transfer MA for ranking purposes - for 1st round ranking only)


22nd July 1st round of MA Contracts [Offered / Announced] (between 9 and 13 contracts at
MA discretion)


30th July Last day to [Accept / Decline] MA contract (1st round contract offers)

23rd July–6th August
Second player Transfer Window (for
players who missed contract offers in 1st
round and wish to transfer to another MA
for 2nd round contract ranking).


9th August
2nd round of MA Contracts [Offered /
Announced] (to bring all MA’s up to 14
contracted players)


14th August
Last day to [Accept / Decline]
MA contract (2nd round contract offers)
 

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