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Thread: New Zealand doom and gloom thread

  1. #331
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    So I think all pretensions that Vettori would not be a useful addition can now be dropped.

    I also think Wagner justified his selection and has genuinely been improving. It's possible that he might be test standard some day.

    Watling will be a big loss if he's injured for the second test.

  2. #332
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    I just wish our bowlers had a chance to bowl against our batsmen for some stat-grabbing.

    It is so brutal that Southee's 10-fer means nothing now.

  3. #333
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    I just wish our bowlers had a chance to bowl against our batsmen for some stat-grabbing.

    It is so brutal that Southee's 10-fer means nothing now.
    That's one thing that I was hoping would push our batsmen in the right direction. For the first time since Bond retired, they've got quality bowling coming at them in the nets. But I guess there's only so much polish that you can put on a turd.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I can think of a list of Sydney Grade posters who would contribute a better average post than Bahnz.
    Maow like no one can hear you maowing.

  4. #334
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    So I think all pretensions that Vettori would not be a useful addition can now be dropped.
    With the caveat that his batting is near his pre-injury level and he can average perhaps 35, yes.


  5. #335
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    I thought this thread might be a good repository of NZ collapses but was surprised to see Bahnz's opening post was only July last year. 23 pages of gloom later....

    Anyway, in just the last 12 months:
    4 Aug 2012 - 2nd innings vs West Indies at Sabina Park: 154
    24 Aug 2012 - 1st innings vs India at Hyderabad: 159
    26 Aug 2012 - 2nd innings vs India at Hyderabad: 168
    18 Nov 2012 - 2nd innings vs Sri Lanka at Galle: 118
    2 Jan 2013 - 1st innings vs South Africa at Newlands: 45
    13 Jan 2013 - 1st innings vs South Africa at Port Elizabeth: 121
    19 May 2013 - 2nd innings vs England at Lords: 68

    No signs of this changing until at the very least we find two competent openers. However Southee and Boult plus backup seamers fill me with a restrained sense of joy. Hoping for Henry/Milne/McClenaghan/someone to further strengthen that strength in the next 12 months.

  6. #336
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    I've also been begrudgingly impressed by Wagner, especially in this latest test. To give him his due, he's seen his opportunity, and hasn't given Bracewell a chance since. Can't ask for much more than that.

  7. #337
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    He actually seam positioned!
    Exit pursuing a beer

  8. #338
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I've also been begrudgingly impressed by Wagner, especially in this latest test. To give him his due, he's seen his opportunity, and hasn't given Bracewell a chance since. Can't ask for much more than that.
    Heh, he's done to Bracewell what Van Wyk did to Watling. Now where is SteveNZ to campaign for Wagner to be dropped?

    I'm pleased that Bracewell will play next match though. Dare I mention Hobart's lack of Vettori? Yes I dare.

  9. #339
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Serious question:

    What will Bracewell add to the attack?

    From the sounds of the warmup matches, he was operating significantly quicker than Wagner, so I suppose there's that.

    But he'll also need reasonable accuracy, which (surprisingly) Wagner achieved relatively consistently. There's always the possibility of them both losing their radar though and that's quite a scary proposition if some mug like Bell or Broad are batting. At least if Vettori were flown in that wouldn't be a big issue.

  10. #340
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Serious question:

    What will Bracewell add to the attack?

    From the sounds of the warmup matches, he was operating significantly quicker than Wagner, so I suppose there's that.

    But he'll also need reasonable accuracy, which (surprisingly) Wagner achieved relatively consistently. There's always the possibility of them both losing their radar though and that's quite a scary proposition if some mug like Bell or Broad are batting. At least if Vettori were flown in that wouldn't be a big issue.
    As I mentioned elsewhere, Vettori isn't fit for test cricket. If he was he'd have been selected in the squad.

  11. #341
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    As I mentioned elsewhere, Vettori isn't fit for test cricket. If he was he'd have been selected in the squad.
    True.

    I will now put a knife in the hearts of any NZ supporters who still have that masochistic optimism by pressing the case for an Ian Butler or James Franklin. (if they were in the original squad, which they weren't so it's elementary)

    Well, not much to press really apart from the fact that they can both bat better than any of the number 8s we've tried recently and they would probably fluke a wicket or two now and then.

  12. #342
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Franklin's absence is only disappointing because he would make a perfect scapegoat for this debacle .

    Bracewell may or may not bowl well but he's worth a shot - quotes I've seen from warmups included 'failed to generate much swing', 'overused the short ball', but also 'strong and bowled quickly', 'improved with more overs'. Unpredictable. However Headingley will probably be another low-scorer so it's hard to see us struggling for bowlers even if Bracewell or Wagner goes missing.

  13. #343
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    However Headingley will probably be another low-scorer so it's hard to see us struggling for bowlers even if Bracewell or Wagner goes missing.
    Yeah see that's what I mean when I ask "What will Bracewell add to the bowling attack" other than covering for Wagner if he reverts (and there's also the very high chance of Bracewell himself bowling pies).

    A bowling allrounder like Franklin, Butler or Vettori should have been brought along.

    I suppose that's a defensive tactic but I don't care.

  14. #344
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how a bowling allrounder is necessarily going to help you if one of the regular seamers goes missing. Both Butler and Franklin are renowned for producing their fair share of contributions to the annual "world's juiciest pie" contest. Wouldn't you be better opting for a regular line and length merchant like Brent Arnel?

  15. #345
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Yeah see that's what I mean when I ask "What will Bracewell add to the bowling attack" other than covering for Wagner if he reverts (and there's also the very high chance of Bracewell himself bowling pies).
    Because part of Bracewell's unpredictability is that he has bowled very well at various times during his career. Picking him gives us an extra roll of the dice, if you like. Whereas Bartin, even if fit, was fortunate to take the wickets he did and was fortunate to keep the runs down in that first innings too.

    A line-and-length allrounder like you and Bahnz mention, would be useful if he could bat 8, but we don't have one (pending Neesham of course ).

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