New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

We've been having dark age threads since 2007. This is the dark age, and no different to the majority of our history. After the eighties we dropped the ball until Rixon, Graham and Fleming built a new foundation only for the ball to be dropped again by Justin Vaughan and co. and we've been terrible for a while.

Don't know if I agree with this, at least not for our recent history. New Zealand first became a competitive side in the early 70's. During the 80's we were briefly a very good one. However, we remained a credible team, at least at home (we managed to draw the 92/93 series with Border's Australians ffs), until Wright and Jones retired and Crowe blew out his knee. We were then rubbish for 4 years, as much due to internal mismanagement and injury problems as to lack of talent, before Rixon got us back on our feet. Things stayed good until 2004, but since then its been a horribly steady downward slide, with our only real successes in that period due to the sporadic presence of Bond.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

I rate Bevan Small and Matt Henry highly. Haven't seen much of Wheeler, but most people rate him as well.

Again, people have been trumpeting young fast bowlers since the days of Sherlock and TA Davis. They never seem to live up to the hype.

What's really tragic for NZ, is that the most talented (imo) age group cricketer since Ryder has been completely destroyed by injury. Poor Corey Anderson was displaying such awesome promise back in 2009/10, it's just tragic how he's been unable to stay on the field since.

[Winsome]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

I know that for some odd reason I've earned a reputation for being a bit of pessimist over the years, so I thought I'd make the most of it right now by having a long miserable rant about the doomed future of New Zealand cricket. And no, this isn't just my attempt to reverse-jinx New Zealand into winning the 2nd test.

I'm really worried about the future of the team at the moment. I just don't see how things are going to turn around. Vettori is the best spinner in the country by miles and he's completely rubbish. Martin is still probably our most consistently effective seamer and he's at least 5 years past his best. Taylor is our best batsman by a distance, and even he has only a vague notion of how to build a test innings.

The next generation of fast mediums are either ridiculously injury prone or worryingly pedestrian. Outside of the Taylor-Ryder-Williamson trifecta, there don't appear to be any emerging New Zealanders capable of averaging 35+ in test matches (or ODI's for that matter). The team doesn't even have sucess in limited overs cricket to stimulate public interest anymore. As shown by the following article, in terms of on the field performances New Zealand is now the 9th best ODI side in the world.

Numbers Game: Desperately seeking a facelift | Regulars | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

I know success and failure are cyclical in sport, but I'm really worried that we might be seeing a permanent decline in the fortunes of New Zealand cricket. As a cricketing nation, we've basically been getting progressively worse since Chris Cairns retired in 2004, despite the emergence of several long heralded players.

Is there any hope that things will turn around? I honestly don't know, but I struggle to see anyone new changing things anytime within the next 5 years. There are a few potentially exciting youngsters floating around here and there, but we've been hearing tales of how young cricketers (fast bowlers in particular) will arrest New Zealand's slump for years (cough...Sherlock...cough). It never seems to eventuate. If change is going to be achieved, I think it has to come from the current core of the side. The problem is that we've been waiting for such a change for the past 4 years. At this stage I just don't know if it will ever happen.

I don't think so

[straw man]

I doubt there are any magical players coming through who will change the look of the side from the get-go. Even those like Williamson and Southee who were identified early as players with massive potential are taking a while to make an impact.

It's more about the playing eleven plus the other 6 or 8 contenders just performing better. For a change I think our test selections have been pretty decent lately, so no point looking elsewhere. And until this test v Windies (who at full strength and at home are better than their ranking suggests anyway) and coming off a series where we competed reasonably vs SA, a lot of us thought this test side was on the improve.

It was a weak performance v Windies, no doubt. Most of our guys are better than they were this match, so they just need to prove that. Play better next test and this will be seen as a blip on the upward trend. ODIs are another story of course, where I cannot be this optimistic.

More of a worry is the recurring problems with administration - losing Wright being the latest setback.

[Spikey]

Surely this time last year was 'darker'.

[Spikey]

I mean, to me it seems you've had some promising performances as a team and by individuals. vettori and ryder are bummers, but i dunno know, ryder ****ing up and vettori getting worse as a spinner were hardly unexpected.

[_Ed_]

We did put up a decent fight against South Africa only a few months ago.

[Spikey]

and the current WI pitches are probably the least favourable pitches you could play on...

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by _Ed_

We did put up a decent fight against South Africa only a few months ago.

We got pasted. Rain spared us from a 3-0 hammering. We showed just enough guts on the afternoon of the 5th day of the 3rd test to avoid losing a match that we never should've been at risk of losing in the first place. Other than that it was like going back in time and watching our mid 90's team get pulverised by the aussies.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Spikey

and the current WI pitches are probably the least favourable pitches you could play on...

I agree, which makes it all the more strange that most of our home tests now seem to be played on low, slow turners.

[_Ed_]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

We got pasted. Rain spared us from a 3-0 hammering. We showed just enough guts on the afternoon of the 5th day of the 3rd test to avoid losing a match that we never should've been at risk of losing in the first place. Other than that it was like going back in time and watching our mid 90's team get pulverised by the aussies.

We managed to bowl them out for less than 250 in the first innings of both of the first two Tests IIRC - not that bad against batsmen of their class. Although it is true that we wilted as the matches progressed.

[wolfeye]

ross taylor is the man which really inspired me in the new Zealand team

[SteveNZ]

Originally Posted by Mike5181

I rate Bevan Small and Matt Henry highly. Haven't seen much of Wheeler, but most people rate him as well.

So do I. Henry in particular. He showed his mettle against the Proteas last summer in the T20 at Hagley Park. He's a real talent, will play for NZ in the next 12-18 months.

Seen Wheeler bowl in the early 2010-11 season and he was all class. Quickish, swung it late and hit great areas. Fitness is going to be an issue, however.

We are crying out for a spinner. We could have competed a lot better in Antigua with an attacking spinner, even if he went for runs. Unfortunately there's nothing on the horizon.

[Kippax]

Originally Posted by rvd619323

I'd almost be tempted just to throw Astle into the side on spin-friendly decks and tell him to sink or swim. Give him 10 Tests minimum, see if he can handle himself at all. If not, you hang on to Vettori as long as you can and develop that U/19 bloke who looked semi-decent - he can't be worse than Nethula.

Hah, yeah. I don't think Sodhi's groupings are anywhere near international standard yet, but I have to admit I've thought about what kind of U19 WC he would need to have, for Hesson to bundle him on a plane to Sri Lanka before he's played a single game for the Aces. Vettori's own Dipak Patel moment.

[SteveNZ]

He's moved to ND, FYI (Sodhi).

Southee pretty much bowled himself into an NZ spot from a U19 World Cup, although he had FC experience as well.