New Zealand doom and gloom thread

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

one more good day and we can lock this baby

Way premature, but that's OK, I'll start up another thread after we fail to make triple figures in 4 innings in SA.

Also, re my original post, nailed the bit about change having to come from the players in the squad. Totally stunned that it's actually happened though.

[Spikey]

Originally Posted by Spikey

Surely this time last year was 'darker'.

Originally Posted by Spikey

I mean, to me it seems you've had some promising performances as a team and by individuals. vettori and ryder are bummers, but i dunno know, ryder ****ing up and vettori getting worse as a spinner were hardly unexpected.

stand by this

[Flem274*]

If I was still a mod I would close this thread and rename it.

Bahnzie Tastling It Hard

Do me proud Cribblett.

[Days of Grace]

Lock this ****er!

[Prince EWS]

Tastle it Bahnz.

[Days of Grace]

Nah, I guess we should keep it open until after the South African series.

Could still get ugly with the batting.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Days of Grace

Nah, I guess we should keep it open until after the South African series.

Could still get ugly with the batting.

He was ridiculously pessimistic about the bowling as well though. He doesn't really have to taste his comments about the batting yet because I still think he's actually dead on there, and have for years now, but there's no need to be so pessimistic about the bowling now and there wasn't when he made the thread either.

[straw man]

Bahnz's happy bday present is a big pile of tasting. Of victory. It's enough to make a man miserable.

[Bahnz]

Hah, yeah totally tasted on this comment in particular:

Originally Posted by Bahnz

The next generation of fast mediums are either ridiculously injury prone or worryingly pedestrian.

Never dreamed that Southee would turn things around so quickly. The way he was bowling last summer, I thought it would be at least a couple of years before he hit his straps. Glad he made me look like an idiot, and am praying that he continues to do so. He's earnt a couple of weeks rest, but I hope that he can play at least 1 plunket shield game for ND before we head to the republic.

But on a more doomy note, we'll still get pasted more often than not because of our batting. Taylor can't make 200+ runs in every test, Williamson isn't quite there yet, and the rest of the batting is absurdly fragile. Guptill's actually gone backwards since I made my original post, McCullum's the same as ever, Flynn is highly limited, etc

The way I see it, we probably have the 4th or 5th best bowling attack in the world atm, and it's only improving. But our batting lineup is still 8th equal with Bangladesh, and this series hasn't given me huge encouragement that that will change is rapidly as the bowling has.

[Flem274*]

I definitely thought 5outhee was toast for a couple of years at least, so I'm tastling it as well.

Middle order needs some Jesse. Top order needs some runs.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

I definitely thought 5outhee was toast for a couple of years at least, so I'm tastling it as well.

Middle order needs some Jesse. Top order needs some runs.

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Flynn, Watling, Vettori, Bracewell, Southee, Boult
.. definitely has a much stronger look to it as a batting lineup, even if you do give a tiny little bit away in bowling and wicket keeping by flicking Patel and van Wyk. Who actually plays until Ryder's return though? I want to say Franklin but it probably shouldn't be in all honesty. I'm not too keen on recalling Brownlie so soon either so I guess that makes Cachopa a serious option for the first time in his career.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Flynn, Watling, Vettori, Bracewell, Southee, Boult
.. definitely has a much stronger look to it as a batting lineup, even if you do give a tiny little bit away in bowling and wicket keeping by flicking Patel and van Wyk. Who actually plays until Ryder's return though? I want to say Franklin but it probably shouldn't be in all honesty. I'm not too keen on recalling Brownlie so soon either so I guess that makes Cachopa a serious option for the first time in his career.

Considering just how part time Vettori looked with the ball I'm really reluctant to say he's a cert until we've had a good look at him, but since he's Daniel Vettori he's going to play and I'll just have to tastle it.

I do genuinely think Patel was a test standard spinner in this series, which is more than can be said for Dan of late, but it could just be a purple patch.

I'd go Brownlie since he's such a gun against pace. I'm falling in love with Cachopa and his hundreds for fun but there is no way someone getting hit by Ellis and Butler should face up to Steyn and friends yet. I'm willing to change my opinion on that if Cachopa faces his own attack in the nets with them aiming for his rib cage until he gets over his weakness though.

[Flem274*]

Regarding Franklin, someone made a good spot earlier in another thread that some Jimmy James footage from way back was uploaded to the video vault at random and that does make me wonder if Bondy and Hesson want him to be a true blue bowler again and bat eight, giving us some much needed length in the order.

Has the added bonus of infuriating Howsie. I think it's a goer.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Considering just how part time Vettori looked with the ball I'm really reluctant to say he's a cert until we've had a good look at him, but since he's Daniel Vettori he's going to play and I'll just have to tastle it.

I do genuinely think Patel was a test standard spinner in this series, which is more than can be said for Dan of late, but it could just be a purple patch.

I'd go Brownlie since he's such a gun against pace. I'm falling in love with Cachopa and his hundreds for fun but there is no way someone getting hit by Ellis and Butler should face up to Steyn and friends yet. I'm willing to change my opinion on that if Cachopa faces his own attack in the nets with them aiming for his rib cage until he gets over his weakness though.

I was being a realist with the Vettori thing. I'd much rather see Patel play and Vettori get first crack at the #6 spot as a batsman, but that's not going to happen. He's going to come in, bat 7 or 8, force Patel out of the side and act as the #1 spinner. It should help the batting though at least, which is probably a bigger issue than the support beyond the three quicks at this stage anyway.

I think Brownlie's become a bit over-rated on this forum at times. You can't just write his massive run of outs off as a complete inability to play spin; he was batting like a chump in general against all bowling, and one decent series against Australia right before hardly made him a proven entity against any type of bowling. I'd hate to see him stereotyped so much based on his first couple of series. If he gets consistent runs against he should be back in the frame but I wouldn't be picking him yet.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

I was being a realist with the Vettori thing. I'd much rather see Patel play and Vettori get first crack at the #6 spot as a batsman, but that's not going to happen. He's going to come in, bat 7 or 8, force Patel out of the side and act as the #1 spinner. It should help the batting though at least, which is probably a bigger issue than the support beyond the three quicks at this stage anyway.

I think Brownlie's become a bit over-rated on this forum at times. You can't just write his massive run of outs off as a complete inability to play spin; he was batting like a chump in general against all bowling, and one decent series against Australia right before hardly made him a proven entity against any type of bowling. I'd hate to see him stereotyped so much based on his first couple of series. If he gets consistent runs against he should be back in the frame but I wouldn't be picking him yet.

I do think he's going to get trapped on the front foot early in his innings quite often since he doesn't really get forward, but I think he has the goods. It was one series but it wasn't the most pleasant introduction for him either, and his following series was against Steyn and all his mates where everyone failed. I think he may have failed in that one off test against Zimbo as well but he scored against them on their home turf so meh.

He's tonning up in the Shield and in all honesty, there isn't anyone else. Our h4x quick bowling stocks where every side has at least one test standard seamer has had the knock on effect of very few batsmen scoring runs, and of those who are two are Sinclair and Fulton. I haven't checked the tallies but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a considerable gap in runs scored between Sinclair, Fulton, Cachopa, Rutherford, Munro, Neesham and then the rest.