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Thread: *Official* New Zealand Domestic Cricket Season 2012/2013

  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    Some pretty average looking stats their for Bracewell. Has anyone seen how he's bowling?
    Could be Steven Finn Syndrome?

  2. #497
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Two hundreds in a match for Aaron Redmond. Always felt that he probably deserved a couple more tests for New Zealand, especially given the charmed life that TMac would ultimately go on to lead.
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  3. #498
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Must say I never saw the appeal of Redmond. Would have preferred someone like Cumming was given a few more chances back in those days. Either way, it's damn good our test side has two settled openers now, even if they're rather average by international standards.

    Thought this chase might have been tricky for Otago but they've (all but) killed it. Tastle 1/77 in 4th innings not exactly impressive.

    Hard to see a result coming in the other match unless Wellington collapse on the final day.

  4. #499
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Would have preferred someone like Cumming was given a few more chances back in those days. [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Cumming should've had more chances. It kinda seemed like the selectors just forgot about him.


  5. #500
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    Redmond was nothing more than the last Rob Nicol. They both bashed around minnows in the shorter formats a couple of times despite largely being anchor batsmen in domestic limited overs cricket, bowled some part-time tweakers and predictably looked all at see at Test level after only being good-but-not-exceptional domestic players across their careers. Redmond probably shouldn't have played for New Zealand at all IMO.

    I always saw Cumming as a bit of a weird case. When he was actually in the Test side he probably didn't really deserve to be there, but he didn't look completely out of place other than the technical fault he had wrt lbws (which could obviously be worked on). A couple of years after he'd been dropped he was really banging down the door though and only got the call-up to play a couple of one dayers as a middle order batsman, which was never going to be his go. I really thought he was a worth another try as a Test opener during his domestic peak, even though he was on the wrong side of 30 by that point.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 29-10-2012 at 11:10 PM.
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  6. #501
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Cumming looked completely out of his depth at test level tbh.

  7. #502
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    Cumming looked completely out of his depth at test level tbh.
    DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 29-10-2012 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
    Yeah, out of 'that generation' of openers, of which we can also include Papps and Ingram, I always definitely felt Cumming had the best setup against genuine pace, and his off stump judgement was good as well. He struggled with the ball swinging back in to him (especially Vaas IIRC?) and he hadn't really mastered domestic cricket yet when he first got the call up, but his forward/back footwork was always precise and early which is something all those others really struggled with.

  9. #504
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    DWTA, Cumming was hardly flash, but he had a better defensive technique than most openers who've played for New Zealand in recent years. Was bad luck that arguably his best innings for New Zealand (against a rampant Dale Steyn in 2007) was curtailed by a broken jaw. He was certainly better than the men who came after him: Matthew Bell, Jamie How, Aaron Redmond and Tim MacIntosh.
    That's not really relevant to my comment. The only test standard opener we have had since Richardson is McCullum. Guptill is slowly getting there, I guess. Saying he was better than Bell, How, Redmond and Macintosh doesn't prove he was test standard though. Perhaps he was unlucky not to play a few more tests when all those players were in the team, but for someone that wasn't test standard, playing eleven test matches isn't so bad.

  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike5181 View Post
    That's not really relevant to my comment. The only test standard opener we have had since Richardson is McCullum. Guptill is slowly getting there, I guess. Saying he was better than Bell, How, Redmond and Macintosh doesn't prove he was test standard though. Perhaps he was unlucky not to play a few more tests when all those players were in the team, but for someone that wasn't test standard, playing eleven test matches isn't so bad.
    Well, I think he did look test standard, although only marginally. PEWS has already stated why I think that far more eloquently than I could hope to, so I'll leave it at that.

    Anyway, Wellington with a rapidly narrowing window of opportunity here to make something of this match.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 29-10-2012 at 11:59 PM.

  11. #506
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    Redmond's style of play at test level was very strange. He played like a stonewaller in his first 6 tests before smacking the ball all over the place at the Adelaide oval which funnily enough was his last test.

    Cumming wasn't too bad. Could see off the new ball more often than not before getting out after being well set. Unlucky to have been cracked in the face by Steyn while on 48 where he looked well on his way.

  12. #507
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    Both Redmond and Cumming had incidents in their last Test that cost them playing more. Redmond was on about 80 odd and played a horrible shot straight down mid wicket's throat at the Adelaide Oval - possibly off Hauritz. He'd batted very well until then and was seemingly dropped for the shot. I remember Martin Crowe being very critical of that decision. Then Cumming was playing very well for 47 or so on a lively SA wicket against a red-hot Dale Steyn then wore one in the melon, and never got a look-in again.

  13. #508
    State 12th Man Flametree's Avatar
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    Redmond was dropped both for his first and second innings dismissals in that match. Second innings, NZ had to bat two and a bit days to save the match - Redmond and How got through to stumps (Redmond took 12 off Lee's first over...) then the following morning :

    "Good morning and welcome to the fourth day at the Adelaide Oval. This is Kanishkaa returning to take you through today as well. As usual, it's a very good morning to Raghav, Peter and Brydon.

    It's a battle for survival really for New Zealand and like Australia, will need at least a couple of hundreds to frustrate the home side. The pitch's still good for batting so they just need to take it session by session.

    9.1 Lee to Redmond, FOUR, extravagant shot to start off with, it's short of a length outside off and sits up for Redmond to flat-bat it past mid-off, it was well wide of the fielder anyway

    9.2 Lee to Redmond, OUT, it doesn't take too long for Australia to strike, Lee bowls it fractionally short of a length outside off and tempts Redmond to go for the slash, he fails to keep it down however and Clarke at cover point takes it easily, Redmond could well have left it alone

    AJ Redmond c Clarke b Lee 19 (40m 33b 4x4 0x6) SR: 57.57


    Not exactly how Wright and Edgar would have approached the task....

  14. #509
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    I've let myself down on both fronts there - that wasn't Cumming's last Test when he was flattened by Steyn. He came back for a series two months later and struggled v Bangladesh. I'd say he lost a lot of confident when a ton in SA might have seen him kick on. Crazy, 10 of Cumming's 17 Test dismissals were lbw.

    I thought at the time Redmond deserved a bit more leeway. He had produced some fight in a Test we well could have lost in Bangladesh, then struggled a bit in Australia but did make that 83 against a reasonable attack. Others have had a lot more of a crack in different circumstances.

  15. #510
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    Crowe demanded Redmond's dropping rather than being critical of it ftr.
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