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CW Reserve League Draft - VOTING

Which team is strongest?

  • Michael7777777's XI

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Monk's XI

    Votes: 6 31.6%
  • Valer's XI

    Votes: 5 26.3%
  • morgieb's XI

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • rvd619323's XI

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
To start with, the rules of the draft were as follows:
  • The player drafted must not have played ODI cricket;
  • Their domestic career must have been completed by 1980 (exc. South Africans, for whom the date is 1991); and
  • Sir Donald Bradman is NOT eligible for selection, given the randomised draft order.



Please note that these XIs are for One Day International Cricket.


Charter 77 (Michael7777777)
W.G. Grace | Barry Richards | Graeme Pollock | K.S. Ranjisinhji | John R. Reid | Jack Gregory | Warwick Armstrong [c] | Dennis Lindsay [+] | Learie Constantine | Clarrie Grimmett | Fred Spofforth
(12th man: George Giffen)

Abbott's ODI XI Who Never Played an ODI (Monk)
Victor Trumper | Clyde Walcott [+] | Patsy Hendren | Archie Jackson | Colin Bland | Frank Woolley | Monty Noble | Richie Benaud [c] | Ray Lindwall | Alan Davidson | C.T.B. Turner
(12th man: Unaarrimin aka Johnny Mullagh)

Valer's XI
Les Ames [+] | Arthur Morris | Wally Hammond | George Headley | Frank Worrell [c] | Eddie Paynter | Aubrey Faulkner | Eddie Barlow | Bill Lockwood | Fred Trueman| Bill O'Reilly
(12th man: Bill Johnston)

morgieb's XI
Jack Hobbs | Len Hutton | Dudley Nourse | Stan McCabe | Gilbert Jessop | Trevor Goddard | John Waite [+] | Hedley Verity | Hugh Tayfield | George Lohmann | Sydney Barnes
(12th man: Johnny Wardle)

Dan's XI (rvd619323)
C.B. Fry | Denis Compton | Charlie Macartney | Everton Weekes | Keith Miller [c] | Neil Harvey | Mike Procter | Don Tallon [+] | J.B. 'Bart' King | Wilfred Rhodes | Harold Larwood
(12th man: Subhash Gupte)
 
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kingkallis

International Coach
Liked both Morgieb's and Valer's XI but went with Morgeib as he has traditional openers ( Probably the best pair ever ) + finely balanced bowling unit...
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Dan’s Pre-ODI ODI XI have been transported through time into 2012, to play a series of One Day Internationals against the very best. How would they fare?

The opening partnership of C.B. Fry and Denis Compton would be a worrying sight for any opening bowler. Fry was the county batsman of his generation, averaging 50 when such scores were near-immortal, given the state of pitches. Compton, on the other hand, was a dasher – a hitter, an entertainer. He has been promoted to the opening slot to act in the role of a Shane Watson, allowing him to play aggressively and take advantage of the PowerPlay field, while dulling the effect of his less-than-stellar running between the wickets. Fry, also, would presumably prefer to deal in boundaries and entertain the crowd, but could also drop back into rotating the strike when need be.

If Compton falls after 12 or 13 overs, having made a very attractive 40, it brings in Charlie Macartney. While Fry would continue to rotate the strike in the non-PowerPlay over’s, Macartney would immediately start playing unorthodox shots, buzzing along at a run a ball, and splitting whatever field an opposition captain put in place. Doubtless, he would become a master of the reverse sweep and scoop, and, given the pitches he made his finest innings on, would have no trouble playing strokes to any delivery. His cuts off middle stump, and an ability to play aggressive shots all around the ground would be a bowler’s nightmare.

Around the 20th over, Fry would doubtless attempt one stroke too many and fall to a catch in the deep. This brings to the crease one of the best batsmen in history – Sir Everton Weekes. Weekes would slot in exactly where Fry left off, rotating the strike well and placing the ball to the boundary, beating any field set for him. Weekes and Macartney would be an incredible middle-order pairing, never letting the game stagnate, and always being able to score that pressure-relieving boundary.

By the 36th or 37th over, both Weekes and Macartney would have fallen, bringing in a pair of fantastic finishing batsmen – Keith Miller and Neil Harvey. Miller has both the technique and power to race along at a strike rate of 120+ in the last 10-12 overs, while Harvey can play an innings reminiscent of Michael Hussey – running Miller hard to turn ones into twos, picking gaps with precision and judging every stroke carefully - never wasting a ball or looking like getting out. Harvey also has the ability to hit big, lofting the ball over the infield to gain either two, four or six runs on each occasion.

Should the bowling attack prove lucky and dismiss one of these men, Mike Procter has a strong batting pedigree, with over 54 First Class hundreds scored in an aggressive manner. Don Tallon can work the field from the word go, as well as hitting the big shots; Bart King was good enough to score numerous triple tons in America's premier competition, and centuries in the First Class game; and the tail does not resemble a tail – Wilfred Rhodes and Harold Larwood each have First Class centuries to their names.

When this XI comes out to bowl, Bart King and Harold Larwood form a fearsome opening partnership. King is renowned for ‘discovering’ swing; his infamous ‘angler’ causing difficulties for even the very best batsmen. His bowling lead the Philadelphians to an innings win over a touring Australian side including the likes of Giffen and Blackham – with the wicketkeeper describing King as being up there with England’s very best. Larwood, as we all know, was quick, dangerous and deadly. Between King’s inswing and Larwood’s combination of good length balls and rib-ticklers at serious pace, it would be a difficult proposition for any batsman.

There’s no let up in this XI either, with Keith Miller and Mike Procter coming on as ‘change’ bowlers. Procter was scarily quick, accurate and prolific – his first class bowling average is under 20, and his Test average, from a short career, is one of the best of all time. Miller was a shock weapon, fast, accurate and deadly. His destructive bowling matched anyone in the world.

Backing up the fast men is a spinner of unparalleled prolificness, Wilfred Rhodes. 4000 FC wickets at 14 speak for themselves. He doesn’t dart the ball in, instead preferring to toss it up – his somewhat exaggerated statement of never being pulled or cut holds some weight; he did not pitch short often. With an ability to turn the ball and restrict scoring, Rhodes is the perfect spinner to complement the 4 pacemen.

Should someone get hit around, however, there is no shortage of back-up options to race through overs. Charles Macartney was a very good left-arm spinner pre-war, but developed primarily into a batsmen after the conflict; C.B. Fry averaged under 30 in First Class cricket, and is a strong medium pace option to turn to; while Denis Compton bowled that most rare of deliveries – the left arm unorthodox, or ‘Chinaman’. And he did it well, over 600 First Class victims to his name at a shade over 32. Getting 50 overs out of this side would be no issue.

Miller’s inventive captaincy, alongside the fielding skill of Harvey in the covers add the intangibles that can make or break a great side. There is not a ‘weak’ fieldsman on the team.

But, apart from skillsets, how would each player react to One Day cricket? Well, Fry was always an entertainer, wowing dinner guests with hyperbolic stories of being offered the throne of Albania, equaling the long-jump world record and basically doing everything anyone could ever want to do, and being good at it. The entertainment theme continues through the flamboyant Compton, who would be more than accepting of limited overs cricket. Miller, additionally, would take to it like a duck to water. The idea of knocking over a game in a single day, and the more even match-ups it creates would doubtless appeal to him. Macartney, Weekes and Harvey would doubtless accept it – Macartney seeing it as a medium for dangerous, unorthodox strokeplay, while Weekes and Harvey both loved to bat. Surely a ten-over day would appeal to both King and Larwood, taking into account the amount of overs they both bowled each and every season. Procter played limited overs cricket with success. That just leaves Wilfred Rhodes, the most traditional of traditionalists; the archetypal Yorkshireman. Should he object, Subhash Gupte can doubtless fill the void with his big-turning leg breaks and googlies.
 

watson

Banned
Tempted by Valers team but the tail was a bit long for ODIs; even though Lockwood was a 'handy' batsman in his time.

In the end Dan's middle order (5, 6, & 7 especially), plus Larwood coming in at No.11 no less, proved the difference. Benefit of the doubt given to Fry and King.

Very close, but Dan.
 

Valer

First Class Debutant
Tempted by Valers team but the tail was a bit long for ODIs; even though Lockwood was a 'handy' batsman in his time.
To be honest I'm a touch worried about the tail as well and as I mentioned in the other thread the following lineup would hit the park as often as not.

1. Les Ames (rhb)
2. Arthur Morris (lhb)
3. Wally Hammond
4. Frank Worrell
5..Eddie Paynter
6 George Headley
7. Aubrey Faulkner
8. Eddie Barlow
9. Bill Lockwood
10. Freddy Trueman
11. Bill O' Reilly

12 .Bill Johnston
 
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Himannv

International Coach
Put the list of teams in the OP. Makes it a bit easier to compare the sides.

I reckon this might be hard to judge on the whole.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
To be honest I'm a touch worried about the tail as well and as I mentioned in the other thread the following lineup would hit the park as often as not.

1. Les Ames (rhb)
2. Arthur Morris (lhb)
3. Wally Hammond
4. Frank Worrell
5..Eddie Paynter
6 George Headley
7. Aubrey Faulkner
8. Eddie Barlow
9. Bill Lockwood
10. Freddy Trueman
11. Bill O' Reilly

12 .Bill Johnston
I'm amending the OP now.
 

Jager

International Debutant
Disagree with a lot of what you said about the oldies taking to ODI's though Dan :p
 

Eds

International Debutant
Valer's side just edges Dan's, for me. Just has everything.

Michael's being shafted with 0 votes, thus far, btw. He'd be 3rd, I feel. The likes of Pollock, Richards. Grace, Armstrong. Would be incredible in ODIs.
 
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watson

Banned
To be honest I'm a touch worried about the tail as well and as I mentioned in the other thread the following lineup would hit the park as often as not.

1. Les Ames (rhb)
2. Arthur Morris (lhb)
3. Wally Hammond
4. Frank Worrell
5..Eddie Paynter
6 George Headley
7. Aubrey Faulkner
8. Eddie Barlow
9. Bill Lockwood
10. Freddy Trueman
11. Bill O' Reilly

12 .Bill Johnston
Sorry Valer, I'm not too familiar with the 'other thread'. Bit preoccupied with the other draft going on.

Both variations of your team are excellent. I assume that Hammond and Barlow will be bowling 10 overs between them? With Worrell chipping in if necessary. Yes, that would probably work with (perhaps) Hammond bowling in tandem with Trueman, and Barlow bowling in tandem with O'Reilly.

I'd also imagine that Faulkner and Lockwood would bowl the final overs for your side. Faulkner because of his faster yorker, and Lockwood because of his clever change of pace.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Abbott's ODI XI Who Never Played an ODI

1. Victor Trumper
2. Clyde Walcott [wk]
3. Patsy Hendren
4. Archie Jackson
5. Colin Bland
6. Frank Woolley
7. Monty Noble
8. Richie Benaud [c]
9. Ray Lindwall
10. Alan Davidson
11. C.T.B. Turner
12th man: Unaarrimin aka Johnny Mullagh


I thoroughly enjoyed this draft, as it wasn't as simple as picking the "best" test players, or "best" ODI players, but rather selecting players who never played the ODI format to play an ODI game based on their test performances. I attempted to choose players from previous eras who would have been excellent ODI players. I also attempted to select a well balanced ODI team with those players.

Quick run down on the squad:

The opening batsmen are Australian Victor Trumper and the West Indian Clyde Walcott. Trumper was the eminent batsman of his day, he was a fine player of the big shots, particularly drives, as evidenced by him breaking windows at times. Walcott was a big man, with a free hitting game perfectly suited to the first 10-15 overs of an ODI. Walcott also keeps wickets in this XI, something he did successfully for a period for the WIs.

At three is Patsy Hendren, champion English batsman of the early 1900s. he was a great hooker and puller, and a fine "forcing" batsman, perfect for number 3 in an ODI. At 4 is Archie Jackson, tragic figure and extraordinarily beautiful and fluent batsman. It's perhaps only nostalgia for those who die young that makes us eulogize them so positively, but Jackson was said to be comparable to the Don. Perfect number 4 to work the strike and hit the boundary with deft touch in the middle overs. His late cut is the most beautiful shot ever played by a batsman. At five is South African Colin Bland, a prototype Jonty in the field, perfectly suited to patrolling cover point, saving singles, making run outs and taking catches. Bland was also a batsman who liked to force the run rate up, perfect at 5.

At six is Frank Woolley, a fine early era all-rounder. As a left hander he adds variety in the final overs, forcing bowlers to adjust their line. His all round shot ability means he would be very good in power plays at hitting the boundary, similar to Mike Hussey. His left arm medium swing would be highly effective as a bowling option. Monty Noble bats at 7, and will provide forceful and powerful stroke play, as well as great bowling variety. At 8 is Richie Benaud, who will captain this team. A high quality leg spinner, he was also a very hard hitting batsman and fine fielder, his all round capabilities add great balance to the line up. Very astute captain who believed in staying ahead of the game.

The three frontline pace bowlers are Lindwall, Davidson and Turner. Turner was an early era champion, a man with a ridiculously low average and SR, even for his era. He would provide plenty of headaches for the opposition. Lindwall and Davidson form a dynamic, damaging and economical opening pair. Lindwall, with his fluent action would strike regularly, and Davo would make it virtually impossible to score from his end. Additionally, the fact that both were capable of batting as high as 6 or 7 in tests means this batting line up can afford to really accelerate in the final ten overs of our innings, with both capable of some brutal power hitting. Davidson completes a fine inner circle fielding unit of Bland, Benaud and Noble.

12th is Mullagh, the greatest player of the Aboriginal XI that toured England. Fine batsman and high class bowler, and also a fierce advocate for indigenous rights. His fielding prowess isn't recorded in history, but being aboriginal you'd imagine he'd have that hint of magic when called on to sub.

I may be biased, but I cannot imagine any combo beating this unit, particularly considering our strong leadership, pace bowling strength, fielding prowess and classy hard hitting batsmen all the way down the order.
 
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Valer

First Class Debutant
Quotes stats & all that. -- Complete with one final batting order change :ph34r:

1. Les Ames (wk) (8)
2. Arthur Morris
3. Wally Hammond (6)
4. Frank Worrell (c) (7)
5 Eddie Paynter (wk -2)
6 George Headley
7. Eddie Barlow (vc) (5)
8. Aubrey Faulkner (4)
9. Bill Lockwood (2)
10. Freddy Trueman (1)
11. Bill O' Reilly (3)

12 .Bill Johnston

Batting.

At the top we Ames an attacking wicketkeeper in a Gilchristian mould -- Noted for his ability to clear ring feilds and hence take maximum advantage of the feilding restrictions, this is to say nothing of his glovework which was nothing less than outstanding.

To partner him we have Morris, regaurded as one Australias best left handed batsman. More usefully was his penchant for unorthodoxy and quick feet something that would alow him to quickly pick up modern invovations. Finally he was also noted for his placement which would allow him to keep a maurading Ames on strike if needed.

Wally Hammond at 3 is something that would strike fear into any team as someone would had all the shots -- Yet could put them away when needed. His footwork and strength would stand him in good stead to up the scoring rate, should any team be so foolish as to not dismiss him early.

Frank Worrell at four and captain needs no introduction... As captain he was noted for bring together his team and his cool head in a crisis, something I feel would be critical here given the differing time periods and countries of all the players.

Eddie Paynter -- Also noted for his ability as a backup keeper.
"A small man, Paynter was by instinct an attacking batsman, particularly effective against slow spin, but also a fine hooker and cutter who did not spare the fast bowler if he pitched short. He was one of the great outfields of his day and almost equally good at cover - a beautiful thrower with a safe pair of hands" -Wisden

6 George Headley
Deliberately moved down the order to be a finisher with his uncanny ability to hit gaps and superb hitting

7. Eddie Barlow (vc) (5)

One of the finest all rounders of the 60s with an amazing list A record to boot. A great and popular team man lead him to get my VC seal of approval.

8. Aubrey Faulkner (4)

Shouldn't be coming in 8, Classy batsman and ATG allrounder

9. Bill Lockwood (2)
Agressive batsman with 15 FC centuries. Simply unheard of for a number 9

10. Freddy Trueman (1)

Still has 3 FC 100s and range of attacking strokes should he ever find the crease.

11. Bill O' Reilly (3)
"He had no pretensions to grace of style or any particular merit, but he could hit tremendously hard and was always a menace to tired bowlers." -Wisden.


In the feild
Opening with one of the great english bowlers Trueman a quality outswing bowler with a leather yorker and the ability to move the ball the other way. Trueman was also a brilliant ring and close catchign feilder.

Lockwood's variabilty and slower balls would come from the other end -- a sure thorne in the side of anyone hopping to get off to a good start and devastating in the death.

If the change warranted more seam up Barlow and Hammond were to come.

Barlow with sharp movement and action of the pitch, would not only tie up the middle overs but collect wickets at a rapid rate as noted by his List A record (161 @ 18 //3.5RPO).

Hammond on song was a truely dangerous sight with the ball and this would tempt many a captain to bowl his full quota. However it must be noted that he oft lacked zing and motivation hence the choice to leave him as the 6th bowler (allowing him to not bowl out) for his off days.

Spin
Faulkner
"One of the earliest exponents of the googly, he differed from other bowlers of that type because of his ability to send down quite a fast ball, almost a yorker, and when at his best, with faultless length, skill in turning the ball either way and a puzzling variation of flight he proved too much for some of the world's greatest batsmen." He was also a top tier fielder. Would often pull him in for the death overs.

O'reily. -- One only has to look at the value of faster spinners in ODIs who don't move the ball much to get some idea of how much of a threat the O'reily would be.


I'll edit this with (more) fielding stuff later.
 

watson

Banned
Good idea.

Ideally there should be at least 17 votes from the 2 Draft teams. So far we have a rather drab 10 votes.
 

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