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How good is Sanga?

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  • Total voters
    69

OverratedSanity

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Wait, how does Tendulkar average 5 against Shoaib? :huh:

He scored a big hundred against him at Multan. Have you just taken those innings where the batsman was dismissed and not ones where he was unbeaten?

Facepalming hard if so
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Ponting's average against England isn't great in comparison to his overall average and pretty dire when you take into account the resurgence of England and their pace bowling attack that allowed them to become competitive from 2005 onwards.

Let's just forget that Pakistan had the likes of Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir and co as their main strike weapons with players like Sami, Gul and co rotating in and out of the side - ps in less friendly conditions, Umar Gul has a better strike rate than Angus Fraser... and if not for his dominance over the Windies, Angus Fraser's average would be similar to Gul's.
Ponting averages 44 home and away against England. While it isn't one of his better records, that's about as bad as it gets for Ponting. Ironically, Ponting actually averages less against England when they weren't as good (32 during the 90s). Post 2000, Ponting averages 47 against England (50 at home, 43 away). You know what Sangakkara averages against England post 2000? 40: 39 at home, 41 in England. So where's the problem?

Also, was checking on Sangakkara's figures against Zimbabwe. In his 2 big hundreds against them, his 128 didn't feature Price and in his 270 neither Price nor Streak were present. So an attack that wasn't that great with them, was pretty abysmal without them.

Ponting also played Bond in 2 Tests scoring an unbeaten 157* against him.

Also, when did Sangakkara face Wasim Akram in Tests?
 

Flem274*

123/5
Honestly, weighting knocks against weaker teams as a whole is a pretty error-prone way of going about things. Adam Gilchrist's knock in Fatullah, considering the state of the match and that Bangladesh had played out of their skins to that point, is one of the best he ever played. It's just under-rated because of the oppo and that oz won the game. The whole good vs bad bowling thing totally smoothes out factors like that.

On Ponting, his contribution goes well beyond mere stats and is a large part of why the Aussies just kept on winning throughout his era. Aside from all the stuff he contributed behind the scenes, when and how he scored as much as how many hurt his opponents badly. At the beginning of a match, someone needs to take the lead and assert themselves. The first guy to do that usually wins his team the match, sets the tone for the series and Ponting's mentality was that it was pretty much his duty to do so. When you have someone in your side who's that assertive, and he's the skipper, it lifts the rest of the team like almost nothing else.

It's better to get your hits in early and the Aussie side had several who could do it. You don't have too look hard to find more talented quicks than McG, spinners who had more variations than Warne or bats with more shots than Ponting but what separated them was their ability to get hits in fast and early. Before a lot of opponents even woke up Ponting had 50 and was looking to turn it into much more. You either respond or you die because there was no let-up and that's the essence of Ponting's contribution for mine because it's so, so hard to fight back in the face of that.
I love this post so much.
Ponting also played Bond in 2 Tests scoring an unbeaten 157* against him.
OK I'm a Ponting fan but this is pushing it. It was Bond's first two tests.
 

OverratedSanity

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A piece of analysis...

Situations where both Tendulkar and Sangakkara have played the same bowler and been dismissed more than twice (for sample size, otherwise you had instances where Tendulkar had been dismissed for 1.5 and likewise for Sanga) - where they had played against the same bowler.

View attachment 21413
Still trying to make sense of this chart. Tendulkar scored 5 hundreds against Steyn, yet averages 16? Sanga scored a 287 and yet averages less than 20? What is this sorcery?
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sanga interview on Mahela:

How central was Mahela to the hijinks in the dressing room?
He enjoys it. He doesn't always take the driving seat in them. Murali was the guy who drove everything that was fun in the dressing room, from his crazy interviews of all the players, from every other word in Sinhalese being an expletive. It was high fun because we all got to contribute, and Maiya was a big part of that. We used to have the "ugliest player contest" and it was always a fight-off between Murali and Ruchira Perera. Someone would cast the tie-breaking vote.
Murali :laugh:
 

Riggins

International Captain
Still trying to make sense of this chart. Tendulkar scored 5 hundreds against Steyn, yet averages 16? Sanga scored a 287 and yet averages less than 20? What is this sorcery?
Obviously when Tendulkar made his hundreds, he got out to someone else (eg Morkel for 146, Cape Town 2011). When Sanga made 287 he wasn't dismissed by Steyn (Andrew Hall, lol).

All in all maybe the worst piece of analysis for the whole thread. Some achievement, that.


edit: and that even sells it a bit short since the one qualifier for the list is >2 dismissals and the list is littered with 1 or 2 dismissal cases.
 
Last edited:

OverratedSanity

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So that chart only considers those innings where the batsman was dismissed by that particular bowler and he actually posted that as a relevant piece of analysis. Wow, thats just :wacko:
 

Riggins

International Captain
I think it would be somewhat relevant to look at when considering a bowler. i.e demonstrate whether they knock blokes over at the start of their innings or are better at breaking partnerships when people are set etc.

For a batter I think it's pretty useless and maybe even better for it to be lower, in the event of a tie-breaker when everything else is equal.
 

Blocky

Banned
Obviously when Tendulkar made his hundreds, he got out to someone else (eg Morkel for 146, Cape Town 2011). When Sanga made 287 he wasn't dismissed by Steyn (Andrew Hall, lol).

All in all maybe the worst piece of analysis for the whole thread. Some achievement, that.


edit: and that even sells it a bit short since the one qualifier for the list is >2 dismissals and the list is littered with 1 or 2 dismissal cases.
Blame Cricinfo - it's the bowler summary of the batting section, all I did was remove small sample size. My understanding is that it takes into accounts how many runs they scored against THAT particular bowler, per dismissal - rather than their average versus the entire team containing that bowler.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Blame Cricinfo - it's the bowler summary of the batting section, all I did was remove small sample size. My understanding is that it takes into accounts how many runs they scored against THAT particular bowler, per dismissal - rather than their average versus the entire team containing that bowler.
This is a relatively common misconception. It's incorrect.
 

Blocky

Banned
This is a relatively common misconception. It's incorrect.
What an utterly stupid table then - the way it reads is exactly how I took it - how many runs they score against any particular bowler divided by the amount of times they've been dismissed by that bowler - that would make sense to me.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
What an utterly stupid table then - the way it reads is exactly how I took it - how many runs they score against any particular bowler divided by the amount of times they've been dismissed by that bowler - that would make sense to me.
Yeah I agree. It's completely pointless.
 

OverratedSanity

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What an utterly stupid table then - the way it reads is exactly how I took it - how many runs they score against any particular bowler divided by the amount of times they've been dismissed by that bowler - that would make sense to me.
I still wouldn't agree with the table anyway. The thing is batsmen play the entire bowling attack, not individual bowlers. It doesn't matter how many runs someone scores off a particular bowler. Great batsmen see off the great bowler bowling a great spell and score off the others.
 

Blocky

Banned
I still wouldn't agree with the table anyway. The thing is bbowlers play the entire bowling attack, not individual bowlers. It doesn't matter how many runs someone scores off a particular bowler. Great batsmen see off the great bowler bowling a great spell and score off the others.
The reality though, is that it would be a good comparison point how effective batsmen were against particular bowlers, considering in the case of Tendulkar he had far more opportunities to face say McGrath both home and away than Sanga did.
 

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