How good is Sanga?

[G.I.Joe]

Tweedledum only ever lies on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays and speaks the truth on other days.
Tweedledee only ever lies on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays and speaks the truth on other days.

One day Alice met the brothers together and they made the following statements:

First One: I'm Tweedledum.
Second One: I'm Tweedledee.

Which one was really Tweedledum and which one was Tweedledee?

 

[Dan]

They're both telling the truth; Alice obviously met them in the Church on Sunday, because Lewis Carroll presumably wouldn't allow any character to live their lives without God, even in fictional literature.

EDIT:
Turns out I was thinking of C.S. Lewis (Narnia, Alice in Wonderland, what's the difference between two classic children's books that I don't much like), but Lewis Carroll was also religious. Saved by coincidence.

 

[Jono]

Tweedledum only ever lies on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays and speaks the truth on other days.
Tweedledee only ever lies on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays and speaks the truth on other days.

One day Alice met the brothers together and they made the following statements:

First One: I'm Tweedledum.
Second One: I'm Tweedledee.

Which one was really Tweedledum and which one was Tweedledee?

This doesn't state that they never tell the truth on the days they lie. All this states is they never lie on the days they only tell the truth.

 

[G.I.Joe]

They're both telling the truth; Alice obviously met them in the Church on Sunday, because Lewis Carroll presumably wouldn't allow any character to live their lives without God, even in fictional literature.

Correct!

On another day of that same week, the two brothers made the following statements:

First One: I'm Tweedledum.
Second One: If that's really true, then I'm Tweedledee!

Which was which?

 

[G.I.Joe]

this doesn't state that they never tell the truth on the days they lie. All this states is they never lie on the days they only tell the truth.

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO RAIN ON MY PARADE< JONO??
z

 

[G.I.Joe]

(3) On another occasion, Alice met the two brothers, and asked one of them, "Do you lie on Sundays?"He replied, "Yes".
Then she asked the other one the same question.
What did he answer?

 

[Dan]

"Only every second Sunday"

 

[Dan]

On another day of that same week, the two brothers made the following statements:

First One: I'm Tweedledum.
Second One: If that's really true, then I'm Tweedledee!

Which was which?

They were one and the same; the surgery to un-conjoin them wasn't scheduled until the following Friday.

 

[G.I.Joe]

"Only every second Sunday"

Nah, it's a plain "No".

 

[OverratedSanity]

(3) On another occasion, Alice met the two brothers, and asked one of them, "Do you lie on Sundays?"He replied, "Yes".
Then she asked the other one the same question.
What did he answer?

Yeah, with your mom

 

[G.I.Joe]

 

[watson]

Going back to GI Joe's original riddle......

Ask the following question: "If you were him instead of you, then who would you say that you are?". The correct answer is then the opposite of the one that is given.

Note: The day of the week that you ask the question is irrelevant.

 

[Red]

Look at you (probably)fat ****s spewing filth from your arm chairs. Statistical arguments when comparing players of a similar stature is boring as **** and it never changes people's opinions ever. You all have your preferences and would probably sit on a broken piece of glass botlte in your strained attempts to prove yourselves right and the cycle will go on. It wasn't interesting in 2005 and it isn't going to be interesting in 2015. Go **** yourselves.

90 kilos, 6ft. Not fat but my BMI is a touch high.

As for the rest of your post....

 

[kyear2]

Looks better than Sachin for mine, haven't seen much footage of Sobers and Lara/Viv are always going to be very difficult to top, too much of it depends on individual preference to really get an accurate picture though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXhubJHUiZA

At the end of his career.

vs a rampaging Lillee at his best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JGdMKWZi7A

 

[simonlee48]

Sanga is a very good batsman but he certainly doesn't belong with the best. Only thing many posters bring is his career aggregate avg but he has poor/avg record in home of 4 oppositions spanning 29 tests.

Two worse bowling units in home conditions in the last 10 years have been BD and Pakistan by some distance. In 15 tests in Pakistan , Pakistani bowlers have given around 40 runs to pick up each wicket. Tells you something. Then BD gives 50 runs to pick up each wicket int the last 10 years. Pakistan is not a bad bowling unit but they have been ordinary if wickets are flat. They don't have bowlers who can take pitch out of equation anymore. Yes, I know that Pakistan plays now in UAE but equation is still the same. Eng series had totally different pitches in 3 tests. If you exclude that then in the 10 tests, Pakistani bowlers have given 39 runs to pick up each wicket in UAE. Seeing some trend here. Sanga has aroud 40% of career run against Pakistan and BD at godly avg of 80/90. Nothign wrong with that. Very good job but let's keep some perspective when talking about aggregate career avg.

Many folks started noticing Sanga due to his great aggregate career average in the last 3-4 years. Again, I will say the same thing. Aggregate career avg are meaningless if you look at it without context. I don't think that Sanga has done really great in the last 5 years despite his career aggregate going up and up. Top 5 bowling units in recent years have been SA, AUS, NZ, ENG and Pakistan.

Sanga in the last 5 years,

Against SA avg 30
Agaisnt NZ acg 33
Against ENg avg 40
Against Aus avg 46
Against Pakistan avg 79

I am not saying that judge him based on 5 years performance. I am only pointing out that most fans have started rating Sanga a lot higher due to his aggregate career avg which has gone up and up in the last 5 years. But he has actually not done that well against better bowling units in the same period. Clearly, the aggregate avg shouldn't be looked at without context. Anyway, all this was for folks who judge players based on spreadsheets. Spreadsheets are not wrong but without context they will paint a misleading picture.

Sanga doesn't belong with the likes of Viv, SRT, Lara and all. It should be clear to anyone who have seen them bat. As far as runs, he has them but all runs are not equal.

 

[viriya]

Pak have the 2nd worst bowling attack at home in the last 10 years? And you conveniently put aside Eng's 3-0 at UAE (supposedly Pak's home now).. If anything you would expect other players to average like Sanga vs Pak then, I don't see that either.. It's a pretty weak argument when they've had the best spinner in the world and a decent pace attack (while Amir/Asif was around).

Somehow the last 5 years is how we should rate his career with? Let's ignore that he averaged 67 vs NZ in NZ in 2006 and focus on the next 4 tests (which he played at home) he played instead since it goes with your argument..

He had an average series vs SA in 2011, and apparently those 3 test matches undoes his overall 49 average vs them over 15 tests?

Every player can have average stats if you focus on just a small portion of their career or limited number of matches. Sobers averaged 24 vs NZ over 12 tests, and 15 in NZ over 7 tests - do we discount his achievements just because of that? Only a few players have had good records in all conditions in all countries, and those players have had more opportunities to rectify those records than most. Unless it's an obvious technical deficiency it doesn't make sense to judge a player based on failures that are most likely due to just a bout of bad form..

 

[OverratedSanity]

Sanga's tons in NZ in 2006 are two of the most underrated hundreds ever. Both came on juicy, green pitches in low scoring matches where few SL batsmen even put up a fight against an attack which consisted of Shane ****ing Bond.

And people who think he can't dominate bowling attack should see those two knocks, especially the one in Wellington. It came at almost a run a ball IIRC. Considering the pitch and the match situation, it was a phenomenal knock.

 

[simonlee48]

Pak have the 2nd worst bowling attack at home in the last 10 years?

Yes, they have.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Somehow the last 5 years is how we should rate his career with?
.

You missed the point of the post totally. Very few fans were even taking the name of Sanga 5 years back. I see many claiming that Sanga should be talked as the best in world because his career aggregate record has been going up and up in the last 5 years. I was only pointing out that career aggregate record doesn't mean anything if you ignore the context. I wasn't saying that judge him based on his last 5 years.

 

[Maximas]

The average drops to 35 if you include Pakistan's bowling in the UAE, that 39 average period just happens to end around the time of Ajmal's (whom Sanga has tamed as well as any international batsman - probably better) rise as well. The idea that subdividing stats into smaller sample sizes to provide "context" is just stupid given that the overall picture quite clearly shows that Sanga has scored heavily against all opposition (average of over 40 home/away against every test nation). His home record shows he can dominate consistently at home while his away record is full of examples (NZ 2006, 192 vs Aus 07/08, this last England series - just to name a few) where he has largely done the same, although understandably without the same consistency, hence there are a few holes in his record that hold him back in ATG discussions. The point is that inspecting these little holes doesn't tell you more than the overall record does

 

[viriya]

Yes, they have.

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

And ignoring the 15 tests they played in UAE makes sense how? If included the difference between the Pak attack and the WI, NZ and Ind attacks is within 2 runs - hardly significant enough to claim anything.

You missed the point of the post totally. Very few fans were even taking the name of Sanga 5 years back. I see many claiming that Sanga should be talked as the best in world because his career aggregate record has been going up and up in the last 5 years. I was only pointing out that career aggregate record doesn't mean anything if you ignore the context. I wasn't saying that judge him based on his last 5 years.

So we're supposed to ignore his great career record because he had two average series vs SA and NZ? Thanks for the context I guess...