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  • Tendulkar

    18 62.07%
  • Sanga

    11 37.93%
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Thread: How good is Sanga?

  1. #256
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Sobers>Imran>Miller>Kallis>Botham

  2. #257
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    kyear2's definition of an all rounder is slightly different.

    Batsman + slip fielder = all rounder (this is his main criteria). Correct me if I am wrong kyear2?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

    Yeah we don't crap in the first world; most of us would actually have no idea what that was emanating from Ajmal's backside. Why isn't it roses and rainbows like what happens here? PEWS's retort to Ganeshran on Daemon's picture depicting Ajmal's excreta

  3. #258
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    As highly as I rate the importance of fielding, it can't be included in the definition of an all-rounder.

    The only three areas that contribute to being an AR are batting and bowling or wicketkeeping.

    Slip fielding is very important, but doesn't make someone an AR.

  4. #259
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    kyear2's definition of an all rounder is slightly different.

    Batsman + slip fielder = all rounder (this is his main criteria). Correct me if I am wrong kyear2?
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick


  5. #260
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Smali seems to be on a roll. Though I believe that being a good slipper adds value to a player and a side and when I do my drafts and A.T. teams I always try to include 3 good slip fielders, contrary to.what Smali I do not consider them to be all rounders.
    Now, as England showed today and in the past, it is unwise to go into a test with just your front line bowlers and a legitimate fifth bowler, ala Sobers, Kallis, Weekes, Watson, Waugh ect is often required dor optimum team balance and while a bowling all rounder gives your batting depth (Imran, Hadlee, Broad ect) unless he can consistently bat in the top 6, doesn't offer you that 5th bowler to rest your front line seamers or give you that elusive break through. Miller and Botham were the exceptions as true all rounders, but Botham dropped of drastically and Miller was inconsistent with the bat and often under used with the ball. Hence I rate batting all rounders higher and more important, and additionally if you are relying on your #8 to save you match after match you have bigger problems.
    Hence to smali's point, I do find a great batsman whos is great slipper (Lara, Ponting, Weekes) to be almost or just as important to a side as a bowling a/r, a batsman who can bat, bowl a bit and offer me a great slipper (Hammond, McCabe, Kallis, Sobers, Simpson, Chappell ect.) to much more important and crucial to a side than a bowling a/r.
    So yes Kallis is to me just behind Sobers, though Imrans captaincy makes it a virtual dead heat.

    nb: Not looking for a fight.
    Aus. XI
    Simpson^ | Hayden | Bradman | Chappell^ | Ponting | Border* | Gilchrist+ | Davidson3 | Warne4^ | Lillee1 | McGrath2


    W.I. XI
    Greenidge | Hunte | Richards^ | Headley* | Lara^ | Sobers5^ | Walcott+ | Marshall1 | Ambrose2 | Holding3 | Garner4

    S.A. XI
    Richards^ | Smith*^ | Amla | Pollock | Kallis5^ | Nourse | Cameron+ | Procter3 | Steyn1 | Tayfield4 | Donald2

    Eng. XI
    Hobbs | Hutton*^ | Hammond^ | Compton | Barrington | Botham5^ | Knott | Trueman1 | Laker4 | Larwood2 | Barnes3

  6. #261
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Miller's captaincy > Imran's IMO

  7. #262
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Smali seems to be on a roll. Though I believe that being a good slipper adds value to a player and a side and when I do my drafts and A.T. teams I always try to include 3 good slip fielders, contrary to.what Smali I do not consider them to be all rounders.
    Now, as England showed today and in the past, it is unwise to go into a test with just your front line bowlers and a legitimate fifth bowler, ala Sobers, Kallis, Weekes, Watson, Waugh ect is often required dor optimum team balance and while a bowling all rounder gives your batting depth (Imran, Hadlee, Broad ect) unless he can consistently bat in the top 6, doesn't offer you that 5th bowler to rest your front line seamers or give you that elusive break through. Miller and Botham were the exceptions as true all rounders, but Botham dropped of drastically and Miller was inconsistent with the bat and often under used with the ball. Hence I rate batting all rounders higher and more important, and additionally if you are relying on your #8 to save you match after match you have bigger problems.
    Hence to smali's point, I do find a great batsman whos is great slipper (Lara, Ponting, Weekes) to be almost or just as important to a side as a bowling a/r, a batsman who can bat, bowl a bit and offer me a great slipper (Hammond, McCabe, Kallis, Sobers, Simpson, Chappell ect.) to much more important and crucial to a side than a bowling a/r.
    So yes Kallis is to me just behind Sobers, though Imrans captaincy makes it a virtual dead heat.

    nb: Not looking for a fight.
    I am not looking for a fight either

    But there are 2 big holes in each of kallis and Sobers' AR resumes.

    If you are talking about under bowling Kallis has something like 1.8 wickets per match. That is low.

    Also Sobers strikes every 15 or 16 overs. Heck even Tendulkar strikes that often in test matches. Also think twice about bowling Sobers against Pakistan. His bowling strike rate is something like 358 or something meaning that he will bowl all day against Pakistan and still won't take a wicket

  8. #263
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jager View Post
    miller's captaincy > imran's imo
    hell nooo

  9. #264
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Now, as England showed today and in the past, it is unwise to go into a test with just your front line bowlers
    And yet that same formula has proven successful for a long time for them, and was also the formula adapted by the 2 most successful sides of all time. So how unwise is it actually?
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

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  10. #265
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    hell nooo


    rotfl

  11. #266
    International Vice-Captain kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    And yet that same formula has proven successful for a long time for them, and was also the formula adapted by the 2 most successful sides of all time. So how unwise is it actually?
    Not a sustainable one unless you have Mcgrath and Warne or Marshall and Holding, and even they had the Waugh brothers early on and both Viv and Lloyd used to turn over their arms to rest the fast men. But yes they mainly survived without either batting or bowling all rounders (though Warne and Marshall came close), but unless you have at least two ATG bolwers in your team they will need help.

  12. #267
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Define sustainable. I'd say 4 years or so is a pretty long time for it not be sustainable. Even in the worst recent performances (this Test aside) the 4 man attack was ****ing awesome and the batsmen (who you would want to weaken by removing one) were ****.

  13. #268
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post

    If you are talking about under bowling Kallis has something like 1.8 wickets per match. That is low.
    It's low for a bowler, not necessarily for a fifth bowler. If South Africa have ever picked only three other bowlers along with Kallis, then it would be an issue.

  14. #269
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    so the main usefulness of the batting all rounder is for the main bowlers to take a rest?

  15. #270
    The artist formerly known as Monk Red Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    so the main usefulness of the batting all rounder is for the main bowlers to take a rest?
    Yep. Steve and Mark Waugh, Doug Walter and Symonds were sort of "just" all-rounders. They were selected for their batting mostly, but they might bowl 6 or 8 overs a day and chip in with a wicket. It allows the quick bowlers to keep fresh.

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