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Thread: CW Draft League

  1. #91
    International Captain kingkallis's Avatar
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    Sobers as a bowler ( compared to these other all-rounders ) is nearly a joke but yeah if he was added to the team as a spinner then its a different story.

    Left arm spinner who opened the bowling...
    CricZo XI - Draft League

    Season 1 M Hayden, G Gooch, R Dravid, W Hammond, K Pietersen, G Sobers, R Marsh (wk), R Benaud (c), D Steyn, W Hall, N Adcock

    Season 2 J Hobbs, B Richards, D Boon, H Taylor, C Lloyd (c), A Stewart (wk), T Goddard, A Davidson, H Tayfield, C Ambrose, H Griffith

    Season 3 H Sutcliffe, M Hayden, I Chappell (c), G Pollock, A Faulkner, M Hussey, D Lindsay (wk), I Botham, A Kumble, M Marshall, D Lillee

  2. #92
    International Captain kingkallis's Avatar
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    From what I have read, Miller is the pure all-rounder and teams feared players like Botham, Imran, Gilchrist cause of their all-round abilities. Kapil and Hadlee were good all-rounders who did their job very well.

    Kallis, as a bowler, would have find it hard to get a place in SAF bowling unit.

    About Sobers, I cant say much as I didnt witness the Windies bowling back in 50s / 60s but yeah only Wes Hall and 2-3 other spinners were note-worthy during Sobers era.

  3. #93
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingkallis View Post
    From what I have read, Miller is the pure all-rounder and teams feared players like Botham, Imran, Gilchrist cause of their all-round abilities. Kapil and Hadlee were good all-rounders who did their job very well.

    Kallis, as a bowler, would have find it hard to get a place in SAF bowling unit.

    About Sobers, I cant say much as I didnt witness the Windies bowling back in 50s / 60s but yeah only Wes Hall and 2-3 other spinners were note-worthy during Sobers era.
    So would medium-pace Sobers...

    Spinning Sobers might make it, but that's because SA has a weak spin attack. He wouldn't find a place in a spin attack of equal strength to SA's pace attack (a theoretical one).
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    Disclaimer: I am a biased South African. Anything I say is likely to have something in it that ultimately favours the Proteas.

  4. #94
    Eds
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    There's no way you can stereotype every all-rounder into one statistical bracket. For example, Hadlee and Sobers are both (IMO) all-rounders, yet they occupy completely different roles.

    For an ATG batting all-rounder, you'd want a batting average of >48, and a bowling average of <38, for example. Then you have to take into account different eras and all the rest of it. It's far too complicated to just put two figures on.
    "If that Swann lad is the future of spin bowling in this country, then we're ****ed." - Nasser Hussain, 1997.


  5. #95
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eds View Post
    There's no way you can stereotype every all-rounder into one statistical bracket. For example, Hadlee and Sobers are both (IMO) all-rounders, yet they occupy completely different roles.

    For an ATG batting all-rounder, you'd want a batting average of >48, and a bowling average of <38, for example. Then you have to take into account different eras and all the rest of it. It's far too complicated to just put two figures on.
    It depends on what grounds you classify an ATG. I would look more along the lines of 45 and 35 being the two benchmarks for the level you appear to value it.

    For bowlers, I'd look at 20 batting and 27 bowling being the minimum.

  6. #96
    State Vice-Captain Blakus's Avatar
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    Vivian Richards

  7. #97
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    This may answer a few questions;

    The World's Best All-Rounder

    By Anantha Narayanan

    .....Who is a Test all-rounder? There prevails a peculiar idea of all-rounders. A bowler who can bat a bit (Abid Ali) or a batsmen who can turn his arm a bit (Sehwag) or a bowler who chances his way to a hundred (Agarkar), at various times have been dubbed as all-rounders.

    That is a very low-level expectation of an all-rounder. Let us raise the bar substantially. An all-rounder should be capable of winning matches consistently with his batting or bowling. Since this is a subjective statement, let us lay down some rules to be used as the basis for our analysis.

    He should have scored a minimum of 2000 Test runs at an average of 20.00 or above. The limit of 20.00 is necessary to exclude long-career bowlers such as Warne and Kumble getting into the All-rounders list. Much as I admire their batting skills I am not ready to accept them as all-rounders.

    He should have taken a minimum of 100 Test wickets. There is no need to have a limit of average since the all-rounder with the worst bowling record among this lot, Carl Hooper, with a bowling average of 49.43 is still considered as a genuine all-rounder. If I incorporate a cut-off limit of 40.00 for bowling average, Ravi Shastri and Hooper go out.

    The rationale behind these two cut-off numbers is that, on an average, it takes 25-30 Tests to score 2000 runs and take 100 wickets. So we are looking at players who have played these many Tests at the minimum. 21 players qualify under these criteria. Wally Hammond misses out based on this citeria. Jayasuriya just misses out by two wickets. Steve Waugh also misses out by a few wickets.....

    Let us come to a conclusion.

    The top 5 all-rounders of all time are Sobers, Kallis, Botham, Imran Khan and Pollock. Hadlee and Kapil Dev run these 5 close. No surprises except that Kallis is so close to Sobers at the top.

    It Figures | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
    Last edited by watson; 02-07-2012 at 05:53 AM.
    PRE WWI
    Grace-Trumper-Hill-Taylor-Ranjitsinhji-Faulkner-Noble-Lilley-Turner-Richardson-Barnes
    PRE WWII
    Hobbs-Sutcliffe-Bradman-Hammond-Headley-Macartney-Ames-Gregory-Larwood-O'Reilly-Grimmett
    POST WWII
    Hutton-Simpson-Kanhai-Pollock-Harvey-Sobers-Waite-Benaud-Davidson-Lindwall-Trueman
    PACKER ERA
    Gavaskar-Greenidge-Richards-Chappell-Lloyd-Botham-Imran-Knott-Lillee-Holding-Underwood
    MODERN ERA
    Hayden-Langer-Ponting-Tendulkar-Lara-Kallis-Gilchrist-Marshall-Warne-Ambrose-McGrath

  8. #98
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    MrPrez left his selection with me, he chooses Jaques Kallis. Watson's up
    Oh for a strong arm and a walking stick

  9. #99
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Damn. I'm left with GLENN MCGRATH again
    Last edited by watson; 02-07-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  10. #100
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Got to go with Curtly Ambrose here.


    R1
    kingkallis- Garfield Sobers
    Himannv- Imran Khan
    Marcuss- Adam Gilchrist
    Cabinet96- Keith Miller
    Eds- Malcolm Marshall
    Cevno- Richard Hadlee
    Blakus- Vivian Richards
    MrPrez- Jaques Kallis
    watson- Glenn McGrath
    Jager- Curtly Ambrose
    AndyZaltzHair- Dennis Lillee
    kyear2-

    R2
    kyear2-
    AndyZaltzHair-
    Jager-
    watson-
    MrPrez-
    Blakus-
    Cevno-
    Eds-
    Cabinet96-
    Marcuss-
    Himannv-
    kingkallis-
    Last edited by Jager; 02-07-2012 at 01:23 PM.

  11. #101
    International 12th Man AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Dennis Lillee
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    You have got to earn the right to be aggressive.

  12. #102
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Jack Hobbs
    1st XI
    Hutton | Hobbs | Bradman* | Richards^ | Tendulkar | Sobers5^ | Gilchrist+ | Khan3 | Marshall1 | Warne4^ | McGrath2
    2nd XI
    Sutcliffe | Gavaskar* | Headley | Chappell^ | Lara^ | Kallis5^ | Knott+ | Hadlee3 | Ambrose2 | Lillee1 | Muralitharan4
    3rd XI
    Greenidge | Richards^ | Ponting^ | Pollock | Hammond^ | Worrell5* | Waite+ | Akram3 | Steyn1 | Holding2 | O'Reilly4
    4th XI
    Morris | Simpson^ | Sangakkara | Weekes^ | Border*^ | Walcott+ | Faulkner5 | Laker4 | Trueman1 | Garner3 | Donald2

  13. #103
    Eds
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    You've got two picks, kyear.

  14. #104
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Shane Warne

  15. #105
    Eds
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    Two very good picks there. Both in the very top bracket of cricketers. Can't believe we've let Warne slip to Round 2.

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