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Thread: CW Draft League

  1. #406
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    He was competent yes, but nowhere near a top notch keeper, certainly not to have his glovework ranking him in this company.

    It's a fallacy that he was an all rounder as well - should've been an opening batsman alone.
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  2. #407
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Statsguru tells me that Wilfred averaged 36.72 runs when opening the innings. This isn't bad, but it isn't good either.

    Trouble is, if you play Wilfred as an opener then you lose a spinner because he hardly ever bowled when he partnered Jack Hobbs.

    I even think that No.8 or 9 is probably too high in the order. All his genius resides in his bowling skills prior to WWI. Back then, he was only vaguely competent with the bat. But what a bowler!
    God, there is a lot of statistical nitpicking that goes on here. If we're allowed to choose time periods for our players, do I get to choose young pre-injury Waqar, arguably the greatest fast bowling phenomenon of all time? You know, the one who took 180 wickets in his first 31 matches at 18.78 apiece, strike rate 35.6 with 19 five wicket hauls? Also, I choose late-career Stewart who was indeed a very reliable keeper. I'll have a young Neil Harvey and SRT too, cheers
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  3. #408
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Shotty early-career Mussey.
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  4. #409
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    R1
    kingkallis- Garfield Sobers
    Himannv- Imran Khan
    Marcuss- Adam Gilchrist
    Cabinet96- Keith Miller
    Eds- Malcolm Marshall
    Cevno- Richard Hadlee
    Blakus- Vivian Richards
    MrPrez- Jaques Kallis
    watson- Glenn McGrath
    Jager- Curtly Ambrose
    AndyZaltzHair- Dennis Lillee
    kyear2- Jack Hobbs

    R2
    kyear2- Shane Warne
    AndyZaltzHair- Fred Trueman
    Jager- Sachin Tendulkar
    watson- Michael Holding
    MrPrez- Muttiah Muralitharan
    Blakus- Sydney Barnes
    Cevno- Wasim Akram
    Eds- Brian Lara
    Cabinet96- Len Hutton
    Marcuss- Bill O'Reilly
    Himannv- Alan Davidson
    kingkallis- Wally Hammond

    R3
    Jager- Waqar Younis
    kyear2- Allan Donald
    Himannv- George Headley
    AndyZaltzHair- Ray Lindwall
    Eds- Joel Garner
    Marcuss- Aubrey Faulkner
    kingkallis- Dale Steyn
    Blakus- Graeme Pollock
    Cabinet96- Clyde Walcott
    Cevno- Shaun Pollock
    MrPrez- Mike Procter
    watson- Andy Roberts

    R4
    watson- Greg Chappell
    MrPrez- Victor Trumper
    Cevno- Andrew Flower
    Cabinet96- Jim Laker
    Blakus- Sunil Gavaskar
    kingkallis- Richie Benaud
    Marcuss- Ian Botham
    Eds- Barry Richards
    AndyZaltzHair- Clarrie Grimmett
    Himannv- Frank Tyson
    kyear2- Ricky Ponting
    Jager- Harold Larwood

    R5
    AndyZaltzHair- Les Ames
    kyear2- Everton Weekes
    Blakus- Herbert Sutcliffe
    Jager- Neil Harvey
    Cabinet96- Courtney Walsh
    Marcuss- Steve Waugh
    Cevno- WG Grace
    MrPrez- Allan Border
    watson- Alan Knott
    kingkallis- Rahul Dravid
    Himannv- Ken Barrington
    Eds- Kapil Dev

    R6
    Eds- Frank Worrell
    Himannv- Denis Compton
    kingkallis- Matthew Hayden
    watson- Hedley Verity
    MrPrez- Ian Healy
    Cevno- Anil Kumble
    Marcuss- Javed Miandad
    Cabinet96- Fazal Mahmood
    Jager- Wilfred Rhodes
    Blakus- Kumar Sangakkara
    kyear2- Denis Lindsay
    AndyZaltzHair- Arthur Morris

    R7
    watson- Bob Simpson
    Jager- Dudley Nourse
    AndyZaltzHair- Clive Lloyd
    Eds- Gordon Greenidge
    kingkallis- Graham Gooch
    Marcuss- Geoff Boycott
    kyear2- Colin Croft
    Himannv- Hanif Mohammad
    MrPrez- Saqlain Mushtaq
    Blakus- Frederick Spofforth
    Cevno- Virender Sehwag
    Cabinet96- Bruce Mitchell

    R8
    Cabinet96- Shivnarine Chanderpaul
    Cevno- Shane Bond
    Blakus- Peter Pollock
    MrPrez- Bob Willis
    Himannv- Bill Lawry
    kyear2- Ted Dexter
    Marcuss- Ian Bishop
    kingkallis- Wes Hall
    Eds- Charles Macartney
    AndyZaltzHair- Bill Ponsford
    Jager- Alec Stewart
    watson- Rohan Kanhai

    R9
    Cabinet96- David Gower
    Cevno- Inzamam-ul-Haq
    Eds- Hugh Tayfield
    AndyZaltzHair- Frank Woolley
    Marcuss- Stan McCabe
    Jager- Doug Walters
    MrPrez- Bill Woodfull
    kingkallis- Kevin Pietersen
    watson- Mushtaq Mohammad
    Blakus- Kumar Ranjitsinhji
    Himannv- Peter May
    kyear2- Vijay Merchant

    R10
    kyear2- John Snow
    Himannv- Derek Underwood
    Blakus- Hugh Trumble
    watson- Lindsay Hassett
    kingkallis- Rod Marsh
    MrPrez- Brian Statham
    Jager- Douglas Jardine
    Marcuss-
    AndyZaltzHair-
    Eds-
    Cevno-
    Cabinet96-

    R11
    AndyZaltzHair-
    Jager-
    MrPrez-
    Marcuss-
    Blakus-
    Himannv-
    kyear2-
    Eds-
    kingkallis-
    watson-
    Cevno-
    Cabinet96-

    R12
    Cabinet96-
    Cevno-
    watson-
    kingkallis-
    Eds-
    kyear2-
    Himannv-
    Blakus-
    Marcuss-
    MrPrez-
    Jager-
    AndyZaltzHair-


  5. #410
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    Shotty early-career Mussey.
    I know you're just messing obviously, but had you been serious you would have proven my point. We don't get to pick which time period of a player we want.

    P.S I find it amusing that Rhodes averaged 32.21 at the outbreak of WWI, having scored both his centuries

    Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

    6 five-fors, 105 wickets at 24.90 at that stage too
    Last edited by Jager; 17-07-2012 at 07:35 AM.

  6. #411
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    God, there is a lot of statistical nitpicking that goes on here. If we're allowed to choose time periods for our players, do I get to choose young pre-injury Waqar, arguably the greatest fast bowling phenomenon of all time? You know, the one who took 180 wickets in his first 31 matches at 18.78 apiece, strike rate 35.6 with 19 five wicket hauls? Also, I choose late-career Stewart who was indeed a very reliable keeper. I'll have a young Neil Harvey and SRT too, cheers
    Well, presumerably, if you did have a time-machine to zip around the past to collect all the players for your team, then you would have to choose a specific moment in time to pick up Neil Harvey. You can't go to 1950 and 1960 similtaneously, that would be silly. Unlike the notion of time-travel which isn't silly at all because Dr Who does it.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    God, there is a lot of statistical nitpicking that goes on here. If we're allowed to choose time periods for our players, do I get to choose young pre-injury Waqar, arguably the greatest fast bowling phenomenon of all time? You know, the one who took 180 wickets in his first 31 matches at 18.78 apiece, strike rate 35.6 with 19 five wicket hauls? Also, I choose late-career Stewart who was indeed a very reliable keeper. I'll have a young Neil Harvey and SRT too, cheers
    You're thinking about it wrong. Pre-injury Waqar was still a Waqar that was essentially a fast bowler. Neil Harvey and Tendulkar were both batsmen throughout their career, as well. We're not picking someone at their peak - we're focusing rather on player role.

    Example A:
    You pick Wilfred Rhodes. A player with the stats of an all-rounder who was never able to do well with bat and ball at the same time, and never really played as an all-rounder at all. Just because over the course of his career his stats equal out to those of an all-rounder, doesn't mean he can be used as an all-rounder here. As a result of this, you've either picked yourself a strong opening batsman that could be a good option as a second or third spinner, OR, a superb spinner who batted at 9 or 10.

    Example B:
    You pick Alec Stewart. Throughout his career, he showed that he was a more than capable opening bat, as well as being a more than capable middle order bat. Without the gloves, he would be capable of batting anywhere in the order. However, because he never really consistently opened and kept at the same time, he should not be made to do so here. As a result of this, you've either picked a specialist opening batsman, a specialist middle order batsman, or a middle-order wicketkeeper-batsman.

    Example C:
    You pick Garfield Sobers. A player who consistently performed with bat and ball throughout his career. However, at the beginning of his career, he was brought into the side as a bowler. Because of this, you've got license to use him as the specialist bowler he was when he was brought into the team, if you so wish. You'd never want to do that, but it'd be an option.

    See what I mean?
    "If that Swann lad is the future of spin bowling in this country, then we're ****ed." - Nasser Hussain, 1997.

  8. #413
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Well, presumerably, if you did have a time-machine to zip around the past to collect all the players for your team, then you would have to choose a specific moment in time to pick up Neil Harvey. You can't go to 1950 and 1960 similtaneously, that would be silly. Unlike the notion of time-travel which isn't silly at all because Dr Who does it.


    unfortunately we have to examine players in as a whole instead of their glory days only.

  9. #414
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    What happens if I partner Stewart with a magnificent opening batsmen who will take a huge amount of the pressure off him?

  10. #415
    State Vice-Captain MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    What happens if I partner Stewart with a magnificent opening batsmen who will take a huge amount of the pressure off him?
    Your batting attack will be worse than a team with two magnificent opening batsmen?

  11. #416
    Eds
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    Seems unlikely at this stage.

    I'd still argue that he wouldn't do very well, though. For the same reasons I mentioned earlier. He just hasn't proven himself as an opening wicketkeeper-batsman.

  12. #417
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Indeed you might be right, although on that note I should also mention that this entire exercise is mere speculation I think I'll keep him there until I snag an opener - sort order out later

  13. #418
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I know you're just messing obviously, but had you been serious you would have proven my point. We don't get to pick which time period of a player we want.

    P.S I find it amusing that Rhodes averaged 32.21 at the outbreak of WWI, having scored both his centuries

    Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

    6 five-fors, 105 wickets at 24.90 at that stage too
    I see where you are coming from Jager, and you do have some valid points. But the history of Rhode's career is a little more subtle and intriguing in my opinion.

    Rhodes scored his first century in the 1911 Ashes series and averaged 57.87 with the bat. In the same Ashes series his wicket tally was exactly zero (If I've read the columns right this time).

    On-the-other-hand, Rhodes claimed 31 wickets in the 1903/04 Ashs series at a mere 15.7 runs a piece. In the same Ashes series his top score was 40 runs (at No.11) and his batting average was 18.00.

    I think that is is farely obvious that Rhodes wasn't an allrounder in the true meaning of the word. At his bowling peak he was a truly great bowler who happened to be a useful tail-end batsman. At his batting peak he was a good batsman who was rarely used as a bowler.

  14. #419
    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    Conveniently I am not playing him as an all-rounder, but as a world-class spinner who can bat. I'd imagine it was more how he was deployed that altered his numbers, much like Miller

  15. #420
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post


    unfortunately we have to examine players in as a whole instead of their glory days only.
    I think that we have stumbled across an interesting philosophical and technical point.

    Personally, I look at the player's entire career to see whether they are worthy of being considered for an ATG team. I then narrow the player down to a specific year, or even series once I have selected the player.

    In my imagination a fat rotund Ian Botham from 1989 does not bowl to a greying Vivian Richards from1990. Instead, a faster Ian Botham from 1979 bowls to a younger Vivian Richards from 1980.



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