Andy Roberts' place in the pantheon of Caribbean Pace Men

[harsh.ag]

Whenever I saw India and England play the Windies in the 1970s and 80s, Andy Roberts was always incredibly lethal as the opening bowler, not to mention that he possessed the greatest variations of the four in his armory. His bouncers were magnificent, and I sure most you must be aware of his deadly 2-bouncer strategy. On top of that, his fast in-cutters were also a handful, to say the least. And he always seemed to be planning the next wicket, as a long-game con artist who builds up the pressure slowly. Nowadays in discussions of cricket, it seems I am sometimes one of the few who mention his name in the context of individual great fast bowlers. Sure, his name comes up like a charm when talking about the quartet, but apart from that, he seems less appreciated than the other three. His test record in terms of averages is less special than them, but is that the only reason? He was, after all, the fastest to get to a hundred wickets at one point. Where do you think his place is in the pantheon of the great Caribbean pacemen? Behind Marshall, Holding, Ambrose and Garner? Maybe ahead of one or two of them? Maybe behind even Hall and Walsh? Opinions?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

He was before my time but when all the old players talk about him they all say how brilliant and brutal he was. Difficult to really list the great Windies pacers in an order as there were so many of them and you will always have people arguing against your own list.

 

[fredfertang]

I always put Maco on top by the shortest of short heads but him apart I think Roberts is right up there with Garner, Holding, Ambrose, Walsh and Croft - his stats are slightly inferior but then he started that bit earlier and didn't enjoy the same support as the others got from generally being part of a four pronged attack

...... and he wasn't quite as good as Sylvers either, obviously

 

[Dan]

From the pool of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh, Croft, Roberts, Garner, Holding, Clarke, Daniel, Hall et al, you don't suffer much of a drop in quality from first to last.

 

[smash84]

the old timers rate him very highly

 

[watson]

I'm pretty sure Ritchie Benaud rates Andy Roberts as the best of the West Indian fast bowlers.

However, I think that an acceptable pecking order for the top 5 would be;

1. Marshall
2. Ambrose
3. Holding
4. Roberts
5. Garner

Not sure after that...

 

[Jono]

Second behind F Lesley for me.

 

[Jager]

Ian Botham rates Roberts the best, too. I am interested to see how Croft rates, he is equal favourite with Roberts to me. Actually, make that a three way tie with Marshall.

 

[Top_Cat]

second behind f lesley for me.

ffs.

 

[bagapath]

very legit question this is.

I would personally rank him fourth behind marshall, ambrose and holding; and slightly ahead of garner. apart from the first position that rightfully belongs to macko the other four could easily swap their positions. and the thread starter would hopefully admit that my ranking is not based on stats alone.

i am sure my opinion is heavily colored by the fact that by the time i started watching cricket in the early 80s roberts was slowly making way to marshall to lead the pack with holding and garner hunting batsmen full swing. otherwise, in terms of quality, jeez, there is no way to split these guys. croft and walsh would have to stay one step below these five giants though.

 

[benchmark00]

Second behind F Lesley for me.

 

[benchmark00]

srsly though, the real question is what's his place in the pantheon of Cribbbean pacemen.

 

[benchmark00]

 

[Jacknife]

I'm pretty sure Ritchie Benaud rates Andy Roberts as the best of the West Indian fast bowlers.

However, I think that an acceptable pecking order for the top 5 would be;

1. Marshall
2. Ambrose
3. Holding
4. Roberts
5. Garner

Not sure after that...

Pretty much where I'd place them with Walsh in at 6.

 

[smash84]

Imran in his autobiography has a paragraph each for one of the WI greats.....on Roberts he writes

"Another fast bowler who deserves to be called great is Holding's former partner, Andy Roberts. I first saw him when he came down to Oxford with the MCC. He was playing for Hampshire's second XI at the time. When our turn came to bat, we wondered what on earth was going on: Oxford had just beaten Northants in the B&H cup but we couldn't lay a bat on this fast bowler. Perhaps-- we thought -- we had celebrated our B&H win too well! But as the season wore on we started to notice the Hampshire second XI's matches in the small print of the newspapers: their opponents kept declaring at about 60-7 after Andy had put two or three players in the hospital....
Contrary to popular opinion Roberts was a very intelligent bowler. He was a good reader of the game and probably the first WI fast bowler who thought hard about thinking out the batsmen. He passed on his knowledge to a later generation of WI quick bowlers, all of whom became excellent bowlers, using their brains as well as their brawn. Roberts had a big hand in the WI revival of the 1970s."

Then there is a paragraph each on Garner, Croft, Sylvester Clarke, and a few for Macko.

 

[kyear2]

Excellent read.
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Roberts
Garner
Walsh
Croft/Bishop
Hall.

Giants all.

Smali can you share some more quotes about the W.I quicks

 

[smash84]

After writing on Lillee, he comes to Holding

"The other great fast bowler of my time was Jamaica's Michael Holding. I've never seen a more gifted bowler. He was a natural athlete, and possessed a perfect bowling action. Once he had cut down his run he was able to bowl for long spells without taking too much out of himself. He could do everything with the ball: he could swing it. he could move it off the pitch, and he could obtain awkward bounce from well pitched up deliveries.
Holding provided the fastest bowling I've ever seen during a World Series cup match at the Sydney Showgrounds. It was a one day match, and Sarfaraz and I, playing for the World XI, had bowled out the WI for about a hundred. Some rain then affected the pitch slightly: luckily for us, it also reduced our target to about 70. Holding ran in from one end and Roberts bowled from the other, and it was the only time I ever saw batsmen trying to get away from strike at one end so they could face Roberts, who was also in his prime. Holding was bowling like the wind: when I went in to bat, the wicket keeper, Derryck Murray, was standing so far back that I couldn't see how the ball could possibly reach him. Whenever I see Desmond Haynes, I remind him of that spell. He remembers it well: he was fielding at short leg, and he had to shout to Murray to make himself heard, because the keeper was so far away.

 

[smash84]

On Sylvester Clarke

A bowler who could have made a name for himself in international cricket was Sylvester Clarke. Once again, I never felt he was particularly interested in the game. He had an awkward bowling action, but he could bowl very fast at times. He too had a very fast, swinging bouncer, and could be very unpleasant to face. Like Roberts, he terrorized county batsmen for a time. I didn't see enough of him in test cricket to judge his temperament at the highest level, but he certainly produced the goods in county cricket. People often accused him of throwing, but I'm not sure about that. Had he not been playing for WI he would almost certainly have made his name playing for another country.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Ambrose
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh
Roberts
Croft
Bishop

 

[stumpski]

Roberts was the first from Antigua to play for West Indies - he and Richards between them really put the island on the map - and was renowned for having two bouncers: the first the batsman usually saw, the second he often didn't - or at least not until it was too late.