Andy Roberts' place in the pantheon of Caribbean Pace Men

[Days of Grace]

It's close. Ambrose's performances over a very good Australian team in the 1990s almost put him level with Marshall, for mine. Marshall was just great against everyone, even though the overall standard of batting lineups he bowled to in the 1980s were arguably lower than what Ambrose (and Walsh) had to overcome.

 

[smash84]

I believe that even more than for a batsman, stats are relevant and do count. Your job is to keep the run rate down and take wickets, primarily top order wickets. Marshall not only did that better than anyone else of the modern era, also had all of the tools and was blisteringly fast and hostile when he wanted to be. He could adapt to any condition and be succesful, be it India, England or flat or bouncy Aussie wickets. He to me was the Hobbs and Bradman of his craft and along with Warne to me are by some distance the greatest bowlers of the modern or possibly any era, with a though to bowlers like Barnes or O'Reilly who we never really saw.

this is going over board I think

How is Marshall the Bradman of bowling?

There are plenty of bowlers in the same ball park as him

Secondly what do you have to say about Warne's not so impressive performance against India, who are comfortably the best players of spin? Surely record against the best team of the era counts and in this regard Warne does have a hole in his record?

 

[kyear2]

Was critisized for that already, but all I am saying that he is clear cut the best for me, not by the margin that Bradman is, but in the same way that Bradman is the best middle order bat and Hobbs the best opener, to me Warne is the best spinner, Marshall the best quick and Gillchrist the best wk/batsman. To me they are the clear cut best of their diciplines.
Edit: Cant forget Sobers the best All-Rounder.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gary Sobers: Greatest All Rounder
Shane Warne: Greatest Spinner

Smalis ears are turning red.

 

[smash84]

haha.....not really.....

FTR I do love Warne but his record does have a gaping hole too.

 

[doesitmatter]

Silent Assasin in the era of testoterone driven ego-maniacs like Lillee and Thomson..Don't ask Peter Toohey though

 

[nightprowler10]

Smali, are you quoting from Imran's '83 bio?

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Find it a little astonishing that Marshall over Ambrose is so clear cut in this thread. Ambrose is not celebrated enough these days for my liking.

You are obviously too young to remember Marshall properly then. We respect Ambrose but MM was the daddy.

 

[smash84]

Smali, are you quoting from Imran's '83 bio?

Nope, from All Round View

I have his other book too but I feel All Round view offers a much more rounded view

 

[stumpski]

Sunil Gavaskar in Runs n' Ruins rates Roberts the best paceman he has had the privilege to face.

I've also read from various accounts about his deadly slower bouncer.

Mind you Sunny did once say that of John Price

In 1971, Price was conceivably the quickest bowler that Gavaskar had faced up to that point. By some accounts he was distinctly sharp, right up there with Snow and Willis but without the same durability.

I know Uton Dowe was a bit of a laughing stock but he was apparently pretty sharp, and I'd definitely have said that Van Holder was a good deal quicker than Price, although the memories are pretty distant these days

Yeah, but Price was getting on a bit by 1971. I'd be surprised if he was quicker than Snow in that series. Maybe 4 or 5 years previously. But Sunny didn't tour in 1967 did he?

The Bible comes to my aid - 2nd Test report in Wisden '72:

"Although Lever gained the best bowling figures, Price had one superbly hostile spell which brought him Gavaskar's wicket. He showed remarkable pace which belied his age of 34."

And no I haven't spent the last week looking for that.

 

[fredfertang]

The Bible comes to my aid - 2nd Test report in Wisden '72:

"Although Lever gained the best bowling figures, Price had one superbly hostile spell which brought him Gavaskar's wicket. He showed remarkable pace which belied his age of 34."

And no I haven't spent the last week looking for that.

 

[stumpski]

Going back to Andy Roberts, it's interesting to note that Gavaskar played against him on India's Windies tour in 1971 - it was his first match of what proved to be a remarkably prolific trip, and Roberts' fifth first-class match:

Leeward Islands v India, 25-28 Feb 1971

He opened the bowling with one Edward Arthurton, who came from Nevis and must surely be some relation to Keith.