Andy Roberts' place in the pantheon of Caribbean Pace Men

[kyear2]

Excellent read.
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Roberts
Garner
Walsh
Croft/Bishop
Hall.

Giants all.

Smali can you share some more quotes about the W.I quicks

[smalishah84]

After writing on Lillee, he comes to Holding

"The other great fast bowler of my time was Jamaica's Michael Holding. I've never seen a more gifted bowler. He was a natural athlete, and possessed a perfect bowling action. Once he had cut down his run he was able to bowl for long spells without taking too much out of himself. He could do everything with the ball: he could swing it. he could move it off the pitch, and he could obtain awkward bounce from well pitched up deliveries.
Holding provided the fastest bowling I've ever seen during a World Series cup match at the Sydney Showgrounds. It was a one day match, and Sarfaraz and I, playing for the World XI, had bowled out the WI for about a hundred. Some rain then affected the pitch slightly: luckily for us, it also reduced our target to about 70. Holding ran in from one end and Roberts bowled from the other, and it was the only time I ever saw batsmen trying to get away from strike at one end so they could face Roberts, who was also in his prime. Holding was bowling like the wind: when I went in to bat, the wicket keeper, Derryck Murray, was standing so far back that I couldn't see how the ball could possibly reach him. Whenever I see Desmond Haynes, I remind him of that spell. He remembers it well: he was fielding at short leg, and he had to shout to Murray to make himself heard, because the keeper was so far away.

[smalishah84]

On Sylvester Clarke

A bowler who could have made a name for himself in international cricket was Sylvester Clarke. Once again, I never felt he was particularly interested in the game. He had an awkward bowling action, but he could bowl very fast at times. He too had a very fast, swinging bouncer, and could be very unpleasant to face. Like Roberts, he terrorized county batsmen for a time. I didn't see enough of him in test cricket to judge his temperament at the highest level, but he certainly produced the goods in county cricket. People often accused him of throwing, but I'm not sure about that. Had he not been playing for WI he would almost certainly have made his name playing for another country.

[ImpatientLime]

Ambrose
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh
Roberts
Croft
Bishop

[stumpski]

Roberts was the first from Antigua to play for West Indies - he and Richards between them really put the island on the map - and was renowned for having two bouncers: the first the batsman usually saw, the second he often didn't - or at least not until it was too late.

[bagapath]

Smali! I wont trust imran to take unbiased calls in ranking players. For a very long time he was ranking inzi along with lara and sachin until inzi's mom tearfully requested him to stop embarrassing her son.

[kyear2]

Lol.

What did Imran say about Marshall?

[smalishah84]

Originally Posted by bagapath

Smali! I wont trust imran to take unbiased calls in ranking players. For a very long time he was ranking inzi along with lara and sachin until inzi's mom tearfully requested him to stop embarrassing her son.

haha....i don't recall the tearful requests from Inzy's mom but who said anything about unbiased rankings? If anything these are Imran's subjective opinions on players he played alongside with.

He has his own opinions. He rates Viv as the greatest batsmen he ever saw and rates Sunny > Tendulkar. Also when he first saw Sami he mentioned him as somebody with all the ingredients of Malcolm Marshall. But that is just what it is. His opinion.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by stumpski

Roberts was the first from Antigua to play for West Indies - he and Richards between them really put the island on the map - and was renowned for having two bouncers: the first the batsman usually saw, the second he often didn't - or at least not until it was too late.

He was also the first of the new breed that emerged in the mid-1970's, who were significantly faster and meaner than the likes of Boyce, Julien and Holder who immediately preceded them. iirc Holding's debut came a couple of years later, and then after a couple more years the floodgates opened. That meant that he carried a greater load than the guys who followed - at least during the first few years of his test career. He was one of the few cases when phrases like 'leader of the attack' actually meant something.

[Teja.]

Sunil Gavaskar in Runs n' Ruins rates Roberts the best paceman he has had the privilege to face.

I've also read from various accounts about his deadly slower bouncer.

[fredfertang]

Originally Posted by Teja.

Sunil Gavaskar in Runs n' Ruins rates Roberts the best paceman he has had the privilege to face.

Mind you Sunny did once say that of John Price

[stumpski]

In 1971, Price was conceivably the quickest bowler that Gavaskar had faced up to that point. By some accounts he was distinctly sharp, right up there with Snow and Willis but without the same durability.

[Teja.]

Originally Posted by fredfertang

Mind you Sunny did once say that of John Price

Old sunny has never been particularly stingy with his issuing of titles for someone having a rather strong case to open an All-time XI.

In fairness, If I recall correctly, The book was written about the 1984 'revenge' tour to India in which Marshall and Holding performed exceptionally both bagging over 30 wickets each at 20 and Roberts was over the hill and only played the tests after the series result was buried, so we can at least conclude he considers Roberts a better bowler than Maco and Holding.

My love for that performance will force me to add that Kapil Dev outperformed every bowler from either side in that series with, for all intents and purposes, no specialist bowler back up, Ravi Shastri with his unoffensive darts as his second best bowler and a knee diagnosed to be requiring surgery prior to the series.

[fredfertang]

Originally Posted by stumpski

In 1971, Price was conceivably the quickest bowler that Gavaskar had faced up to that point. By some accounts he was distinctly sharp, right up there with Snow and Willis but without the same durability.

I know Uton Dowe was a bit of a laughing stock but he was apparently pretty sharp, and I'd definitely have said that Van Holder was a good deal quicker than Price, although the memories are pretty distant these days

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by stumpski

In 1971, Price was conceivably the quickest bowler that Gavaskar had faced up to that point. By some accounts he was distinctly sharp, right up there with Snow and Willis but without the same durability.

Yeah, but Price was getting on a bit by 1971. I'd be surprised if he was quicker than Snow in that series. Maybe 4 or 5 years previously. But Sunny didn't tour in 1967 did he?