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Thread: *Official* New Zealand in Pakistan

  1. #151
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    RRR now up to 7.3 with 28 overs remaing - time to promote McCullum to come in next, especially if Jones is still at the crease!
    NZ need a quick fire impact on the run rate if they want to chase this total - still too early for Cairns IMO.

  2. #152
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
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    Originally posted by anzac
    RRR now up to 7.3 with 28 overs remaing - time to promote McCullum to come in next, especially if Jones is still at the crease!
    24.1 Abdul Razzaq to Jones, (noball) SIX, flicked over mid wicket

    yep, doing very poorly and ineffectively :P

    anyway, NZ have a very tiny chance of winning this. Promote McCullum and hope for extras...so far 10 wides and no-balls from 161 balls - too much I think.
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  3. #153
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    Is the bowling really good or is New Zealand just intent on batting defensively? Surely someone would take the initiative and play some shots!
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."


  4. #154
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    You'd think they'd go for it with wickets in hand.
    And Jones is definitely a test player and not ODI - 3 an over when you need 7 is too slow.

    NZ need Cairns to smack it about abit


  5. #155
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Jones and Sinclair scored too slowly, Marshall is approaching another fifty at a run a ball, however the middle order self-destructed and it's all but 5-0.
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  6. #156
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    Originally posted by Samuel_Vimes
    24.1 Abdul Razzaq to Jones, (noball) SIX, flicked over mid wicket

    yep, doing very poorly and ineffectively :P

    anyway, NZ have a very tiny chance of winning this. Promote McCullum and hope for extras...so far 10 wides and no-balls from 161 balls - too much I think.

    yeah well he stuck around & scored 49 off 96 - maybe ok for Test cricket but not ODIs unless he bats thru the innings!!!!

    with 25 overs left & 8 wickets in hand I should think it is a bit presumptuous to say the game is over (even tho' we know the outcome by now).

    :!(

  7. #157
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    Originally posted by Neil Pickup
    Jones and Sinclair scored too slowly, Marshall is approaching another fifty at a run a ball, however the middle order self-destructed and it's all but 5-0.

    Nope, wrong - it IS 5-0 just like I predicted it would be (as if that took any great leap in deduction or clairvoyance).......


  8. #158
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    AAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!
    NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!
    WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING!!!!!!!

    yet again (at the risk of repeating myself & further angering some Kiwi supporters), THE BRAINS TRUST GOT THE BATTING GAME PLAN WRONG!!!!!! 50 RUNS SHORT WITH 4 WICKETS IN HAND - WHAT KIND OF A RUN "CHASE" IS THAT!!!!!!!!

    This is the 2nd time they have done this in this series and both times they stuck to the original batting lineup and ended up loosing with a whimper not a bang. Even the best hitters need a 'sighter' b4 they can launch an assault & expect it to be successful - the only exception is when they are in great touch to start with, and none of the Kiwi hitters have shown this in this series!

    2 wickets down with about 20 overs to go & the RRR up over 7 & they stick to the original batting lineup!!!!!! If they were serious about the chase they should have introduced an impact player as early as 1st drop, and definately by the time the 2nd wicket went!!!

    too many overs lost & rr getting too high for any of the subsequent batsmen to have a chance when they have to come in and score at that rate immediately!!! Can somebody please explain to me what is the point of having explosive batters & 'allrounders' in the team if you are not going to use them to have an impact on the game????????

    Even tho' Marshall scored another 60+ n.o. at a strike rate of 90+, what was really needed was a hit & run cameo innings from one of the hitters to go over the fence & score a quick 30-40 odd from next to nothing - do a Lance Cairns at the MCG - longevity is not the key, an over to sight the pace of the pitch & then launch. Bring the RRR back sharply so that the incoming batsmen can have an over to get set b4 having to find the fence all the time!!!!

    My picks would have been McCullum & Oram - one or the other if not both depending on how well it went & how long it lasted. Then you could have Marshall or Cairns depending on whose wicket fell - no point in having 2 big hitters at the crease otherwise you have nothing left in the tank for the end.

    Hell I know I've been critical of the tactics for the top order re 'quick start runs', but this is taking it to the opposite extreme - talk about your sublime to the ridiculous!!!!

    This wasn't a 'run chase' - more like a geriatric stumble!!!!!
    There is no 'honour' to be had in these results - only shame at the lack of a tactical determination to put up a real fight!!!!

    :!( :!( :!( :!(
    Last edited by anzac; 07-12-2003 at 08:19 AM.

  9. #159
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    ok - so what now for the selectors?

    Have they resolved any of the major issues regarding the ODI squad - bowling attack (esp 'at the death'), opening batsman? Me thinks not!

    Apart from Marshall none of the batsmen really gave the selectors something to think about. Unless they decide to open with Marshall or Astle, Cummings possibly showed enough to warrant his continued selection for the 1st ODI in the Home series, while Jones confirmed his style is better suited to the longer game.

    As I said in an earlier post, Marshall's success has raised more questions for the selectors re both the ODI & Test teams than it has answered.

    Cairns & Harris were both disappointing in a situation where they should have had the experience to shine. Questions should be raised regarding their continued contribution in either squad.

    None of the other bowlers resolved any of the issues, nor did they do enough IMO to oust any of the current established squad members from their resumed selection. Questions will still remain regarding the make up of the seam attack should Bond remain unavailable - does Butler get a chance?, do they retain Cairns?, do they consider Mills or Mason, or will Adams start (if fit) in lieu of Cairns?

    Potential ODI squad:
    Cummings, Fleming, Astle, Marshall, Styris, McMillan, Oram, McCullum, Adams, Vettori, Tuffey, Butler, Bond, + 1 from Mills / Mason / Hitchcock / Walker?

    Potential Test squad:
    Richardson, Vincent, Fleming (if fit), Styris, Astle, McMillan, Marshall, Hart, Oram, Tuffey, Butler, Vettori, Bond (if fit), Jones / Adams?

    8D

  10. #160
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by anzac
    it can be done ....

    I recall an ODI Tri-Series match in OZ in the mid-late '80s where Coney & Hadlee got NZ up to a then WR chase of about 297 to defeat England. From memory the pair got together inside the first 25 overs and the asking rate was somewhere around 7.6 for most of the remaining overs until they got inside the last 10. I know 1 of them got out but the other got NZ home.
    7.6 for 25 overs is a lot easier than 8 for 30, and 10 for 20!
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  11. #161
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    Originally posted by anzac
    [B] Cummings possibly showed enough to warrant his continued selection for the 1st ODI in the Home series, while Jones confirmed his style is better suited to the longer game.
    B]
    Eh....Cumming has scoreed no runs on this tour or did you forget about that?

    Sinclair has no footwork and will continue to struggle in international cricket.

    Jones technique is suspectible, with Richardson and Jones opening I would rather fall asleep.

    Did you actually watch the match this time before making your criticisms?

  12. #162
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    Originally posted by marc71178
    7.6 for 25 overs is a lot easier than 8 for 30, and 10 for 20!
    true - from memory when Hadlee came to the crease the rrr was above 8 & may have been approaching 9 as he got himself set. They then started playing 'normal' cricket but dispatched the bad deliveries to & over the fence to maintain it at 7.6 b4 launching in the last 10.

    all I was saying is that it is not beyond the realms of possibility, but perhaps beyond reality when considering this team & their approach to the game...


  13. #163
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    I reckon that New Zealand approached batting in the fifth game purely as preparation for the forthcoming test series.

    Jones doesn't look that comfortable/capable in one-day mode, but I've a sneaking suspicion that you may have unearthed a bit of a right-handed John Wright for test matches.

    Canning(?) the all-rounder looks a goodie too, but there's a few established players who must be looking over their shoulders with some alarm.

    For Pakistan, Sami and Shoaib played half a series each, then throw in Inzy and Younis - I reckon it'll be as hard for the Kiwis at home.
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  14. #164
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    Originally posted by THE MINGSTER
    Eh....Cumming has scoreed no runs on this tour or did you forget about that?

    Sinclair has no footwork and will continue to struggle in international cricket.

    Jones technique is suspectible, with Richardson and Jones opening I would rather fall asleep.

    Did you actually watch the match this time before making your criticisms?

    Nope - can't watch what isn't being shown. Wasn't aware that that was a prerequisit to being able to make some comment or criticism. My views are based upon what I have read from match reports & other comments around the place, as well as what I understand of the game - doesn't mean that anyone has to agree.

    So far as my criticism of the tactics regarding the maintaining of the batting order is concerned I don't believe you need to watch the match to make comment / criticism. It seems obvious from past experience that the potential partnerships in the top & middle orders (Jones, Cumming, Sinclair, Harris) were incapable of lifting the run rate to the target required. Only Marshall has shown the ability to stay at the crease & score runs at a decent strike rate, but even he has shown that he is not an explosive scorer who is likely to have a dramtic impact on the RRR. Those are players like McCullum, Cairns, Oram & potentially Canning.

    The maintaining of the established batting order did not work in game 3, so why did they think it would do so under similar circumstances in game 5 when none of the lower order were in any form or had much time in the middle? Oram & McCullum had some limited form from the TVS Cup but none of the others.

    Leaving the launch until the last 10 overs is fine if the RRR is not too oppressive. The fact that there were 3 avoidable run outs indicates a certain level of desperation, that perhaps could have been avoided by the early introduction of an 'impact' batsman. NZ have shown they were unaffraid to try this in the past with players such as Lance Cairns esp being promoted up the order to score quick runs the keep the RRR in check. Others have been used in variations of this role since then.

    Further more it is considered to be a cardinal sin in Limited Overs cricket to bat out your overs in a run chase & still have wickets in hand if you are short of your target. The fact you may have gone helter skelter in the last 10 overs & lost a bunch of wickets means very little if the RRR was approaching double figures by that time. If you do not do something to address the RRR at some earlier stage of your innings you are already in a no win situation from as early as 20 - 30 overs out!!! The gist of my criticism is that they did not even appear to try to do anything different to actually win these games (3 & 5) in their run chase.

    True Cumming has not set the batting wolrd alight, but considering the alternatives he appears to have shown enough temperament to be considered for the opening ODI at Home.
    If he 'fails' then perhaps McIntosh will get his chance, unless the selectors change their strategy re Astle or the 'qick & early runs'. IMO he has been in the same situation as when Fleming has opened the innings - not enough runs being scored from the other end so has to try to do too much too early to meet the 'quick runs' strategy.

    As much as I liked him when he first came onto the scene, Sinclair missed his opportunity on this series, much the same as Harris & Cairns IMO.

    Comments re Jones indicate he has the right temperament / patience & stickability for the longer game. I am not advocating for him to open with Richardson, just that he appears to be a viable cover for the opening spot should Richardson or Vincent be injured etc, or even as no3 on a green top if required. Granted he & Richarsdon would not be pretty to watch, but it would be a fairly safe bet they would have a decent chance of seeing off the new ball.


  15. #165
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    Originally posted by luckyeddie
    I reckon that New Zealand approached batting in the fifth game purely as preparation for the forthcoming test series.

    Jones doesn't look that comfortable/capable in one-day mode, but I've a sneaking suspicion that you may have unearthed a bit of a right-handed John Wright for test matches.

    Canning(?) the all-rounder looks a goodie too, but there's a few established players who must be looking over their shoulders with some alarm.

    For Pakistan, Sami and Shoaib played half a series each, then throw in Inzy and Younis - I reckon it'll be as hard for the Kiwis at home.

    quite possible that is the explanation for not having a go, but the reality is that the Test batting order is more established than that in the ODI team!

    I've already commented re Jones, IMO Marshall is the more likely Test prospect - but where to play him???? I do not see Vincent being dropped on his current domestic form following on from the Tests in India.

    For Canning to get his opportunity players such as Cairns & Harris would need to make way (as I do not think they will drop Oram re his bowling), then others such as Adams would come into contention ahead of Canning perhaps.

    The NZ bowling will be strengthened by the availability of Butler re his 2nd Test form v India, let alone if Bond makes a recovery.

    The Pakistani team will be strong, but I do not think they can expect the same level of opposition for the series in NZ.

    For me...
    Richardson
    Vincent
    Fleming / Marshall
    Styris
    Astle
    McMillan
    Hart
    Oram
    Vettori
    Tuffey
    Bond / Butler
    with Jones, Adams & Canning as further cover.


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