ODI All Time XI

[Dan]

Same would apply for a Jayasuriya vs Bevan comparison them.

Yes; although comparisons between the batting of Dhoni and Gilchrist crop up more often because they share a specialist fielding position.

Jayasuriya was a trailblazing opener who redefined how to open an innings; Bevan was a fantastic chaser who redefined how to close an innings.

 

[Migara]

Yes; although comparisons between the batting of Dhoni and Gilchrist crop up more often because they share a specialist fielding position.

Jayasuriya was a trailblazing opener who redefined how to open an innings; Bevan was a fantastic chaser who redefined how to close an innings.

Replace Jayasuriya with Gilchrist and Bevan with Dhoni, and you will get the same scenario.

 

[Dan]

Replace Jayasuriya with Gilchrist and Bevan with Dhoni, and you will get the same scenario.

I don't quite follow.

 

[Migara]

The argument is on player combinations, not on individuals. My argument was that two keepers are useless in all time ODI XI. I would pick Gilly over Jaya if individual talent considered, but in a team which has Dhoni as the keeper I don't need another keeper. So I could go for lesser talented (with the bat) Jayasuriya (who will bring in fifth bowler) rather than opting for Gilly. Selecting Dhoni will allow me to select a more useful player for the side. Picking Gilly instead of Dhoni will force me to look for a batting all rounder at #7 position, who is Symonds / Klusener / Kapil etc.

 

[bagapath]

i would have gilly and dhoni and jayasurya in any team for their batting alone to be honest. the keeping or bowling is an additional asset.

 

[bagapath]

my second XI

jayasuriya
hayden
kallis
lara
pietersen
ab devilliers
dhoni
kapil
warne
garner
mcgrath

 

[Dan]

The argument is on player combinations, not on individuals. My argument was that two keepers are useless in all time ODI XI. I would pick Gilly over Jaya if individual talent considered, but in a team which has Dhoni as the keeper I don't need another keeper. So I could go for lesser talented (with the bat) Jayasuriya (who will bring in fifth bowler) rather than opting for Gilly. Selecting Dhoni will allow me to select a more useful player for the side. Picking Gilly instead of Dhoni will force me to look for a batting all rounder at #7 position, who is Symonds / Klusener / Kapil etc.

Which is what I've been trying to say all along. Gilchrist allows you to pick that batting all-rounder at 7 (Klusener, Kapil, Imran .etc) - who is probably a stronger bowler than Jayasuriya (no offense, he's still very good).

Dhoni, on the other hand, forces the selection of Jayasuriya or Watson, to open the innings and bowl 10 overs.

In my opinion, I think Gilchrist/Klusener is a stronger combination than Jayasuriya/Dhoni. Most of that is based on my belief that Gilchrist opening and 'keeping gives a side more flexibility.

 

[bagapath]

Which is what I've been trying to say all along. Gilchrist allows you to pick that batting all-rounder at 7 (Klusener, Kapil, Imran .etc) - who is probably a stronger bowler than Jayasuriya (no offense, he's still very good).

Dhoni, on the other hand, forces the selection of Jayasuriya or Watson, to open the innings and bowl 10 overs.

In my opinion, I think Gilchrist/Klusener is a stronger combination than Jayasuriya/Dhoni. Most of that is based on my belief that Gilchrist opening and 'keeping gives a side more flexibility.

am with you on this, mate

 

[marc71178]

For all the talk of being forced to pick one of only 2 or 3 players as an all-rounder, what about a middle order player who could be used as a frontline bowler?

 

[ankitj]

Yeah, I was very close to picking Kallis.

 

[Migara]

Which is what I've been trying to say all along. Gilchrist allows you to pick that batting all-rounder at 7 (Klusener, Kapil, Imran .etc) - who is probably a stronger bowler than Jayasuriya (no offense, he's still very good).

Dhoni, on the other hand, forces the selection of Jayasuriya or Watson, to open the innings and bowl 10 overs.

In my opinion, I think Gilchrist/Klusener is a stronger combination than Jayasuriya/Dhoni. Most of that is based on my belief that Gilchrist opening and 'keeping gives a side more flexibility.

Here is where I differ. Apart for Klusener, neither Kapil nor Imran is in the league of Jayasuriya as an ODI all rounder (which includes fielding as well, Jaya is the better fielder hands down). And we are looking at a batting all rounder at #7, not a bowling all rounder (whom will fit #8 position). So it boiles down to Gilly + Klusener vs Jayasuriya + Dhoni combination. I prefer the latter because Jayasuriya and Gilly are in the same league as openers, but Dhoni and Klusener are not as finishers. Although Watson may not be up to the mark, Jayasuriya did this time and time again, and fielded like possessed too. At 42 he'll still bat 50 overs (provided that you don't bowl a wicket taking ball at him) and bowl that 10 overs. Guy is a case study for a fitness geek.

 

[Red]

Here is where I differ. Apart for Klusener, neither Kapil nor Imran is in the league of Jayasuriya as an ODI all rounder (which includes fielding as well, Jaya is the better fielder hands down). And we are looking at a batting all rounder at #7, not a bowling all rounder (whom will fit #8 position). So it boiles down to Gilly + Klusener vs Jayasuriya + Dhoni combination. I prefer the latter because Jayasuriya and Gilly are in the same league as openers, but Dhoni and Klusener are not as finishers. Although Watson may not be up to the mark, Jayasuriya did this time and time again, and fielded like possessed too. At 42 he'll still bat 50 overs (provided that you don't bowl a wicket taking ball at him) and bowl that 10 overs. Guy is a case study for a fitness geek.

I'd pick both Kapil and Imran easily over Jayasuriya most of the time. Both Imran and Kapil are frontline bowlers who can EASILY bat in an ATG top six. Jayasuriya is a good bowler, but he is more a fifth option type bowler.

So Imran or Kapil give you: A top six batsman who can open the bowling.

Jaya gives you: An opening batsman who is a fifth option with the ball...

An ATG team discussion should not revolve around Jayasuriya's bowling TBH.

 

[watson]

I'd like to give Dean Jones an honourable mention (if that hasn't been done already). For a while he was Australia's best ODI batsman in the 1980s and could easily slot into the No.5 position of an ATG team. I would also prefer him to Michael Bevan.

Ave = 44.61 SR = 72.56

 

[watson]

As for Jayasuriya - you wouldn't be using him as a 5th bowler anyway because there is an abundance of ATG allrounders who bowl far better. That being the case there are also better opening batsman who can thrash the ball around.

Tendulkar opening the batting with Barry Richards would be awesome. Gordon Greenidge also opened the batting with Barry Richards at Hampshire for a number of season with success. Therefore, they have a ready made understanding and would also be awesome.

 

[marc71178]

I'd pick both Kapil and Imran easily over Jayasuriya most of the time. Both Imran and Kapil are frontline bowlers who can EASILY bat in an ATG top six.

No, they most definitely couldn't, much less an all time top six.

 

[zaremba]

I understand the argument but to say that being not out does not affect your average is just silly.

Being out affects your average. Being not out doesn't.

I will fight this war until I win it, or it destroys me

 

[BackFootPunch]

Being out affects your average. Being not out doesn't.

I will fight this war until I win it, or it destroys me

Exactly. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Your batting average is runs scored divided by dismissals. It's not as if being not out results in a 10 run bonus or something. Being not out does not change your average at all.

It's just how many runs you score (on average) for every time you get out. Surely that's very simple?

 

[smash84]

I will fight this war until I win it, or it destroys me

Mr Z WAG

 

[ankitj]

Being out affects your average. Being not out doesn't.

I will fight this war until I win it, or it destroys me

Count me in.

 

[NUFAN]

Yeah, I was very close to picking Kallis.

Ankit, what on earth were you thinking! I am so glad that your brain decided to make the correct decision and not include Kallis.