Who do you rank higher? Stephen Waugh or Javed Miandad?

[Migara]

I watched Sidhu vs. Warne - He was brilliant, but I always felt he was more likely to play a rash shot against him compared to Lara but I never saw a Sidhu vs. Sri Lanka Test so I'm not sure how he went against Murali when Murali was a young bowler.

He took Murali to cleaners. TBF to both Warne and Murali they were very young by then. Lara played them brilliantly alright, but never hit Murali out of the attack like Sidhu. And Lara's brilliance against Murali is maily due to one brilliant (and extremely lucky) series for BCL in SL. Other than that, Lara was not that flashy against Murali and he dismissed BCL plenty of times out of that series. In that SL series BCL had many lucky chances against Vaas who was basically making that ball talk, and nealy 5-6 very close decisions were turned dows, with at least 2-3 being plumb.

 

[Migara]

I don't think I've seen anyone as disdainful of spin as Sehwag. He can be rash at times though the problem these days is he can't seem to last till the spinners come on.

Only problem is he rarely played warne and Murali in their pomp to get a clear idea of what he's capable of. In early 2000s he did play few innings against Murali but was not that comfaortable against him.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Only problem is he rarely played warne and Murali in their pomp to get a clear idea of what he's capable of. In early 2000s he did play few innings against Murali but was not that comfaortable against him.

I think he's taking the no.1 ranked spinner in the world to the cleaners later this year.

Thjng with the guys is, you can pit him against virtually any bowler from any era and there's usually an even chance that he'll come off and murder whoever he's facing. With spin, that probability ratchets up by 30% almost. He's that good; his general lack of trigger movements that comprise a problem against seam are helpful against spin where he can play the ball later than most.

 

[Victor Ian]

I'd choose Waugh, though unfairly, as I missed most of Miandad's career due to still being an egg.

Someone mentioned the ATG thread? Where do I find it, as I'm new here and would like to read this.

 

[smash84]

lots of ATG threads on here mate....and welcome to CW

 

[Victor Ian]

lots of ATG threads on here mate....and welcome to CW

Cheers and Thanks. I was referring to the post by NobleOne where he mentioned "Waugh made the CW ATG C XI and Miandad the E XI.".

I searched for All Time Great but got ten threads about whether this or that are All Time Greats, but not the thread seemingly alluded to.

This site looks great. Lots of good posts.

 

[Jager]

I'd choose Waugh, though unfairly, as I missed most of Miandad's career due to still being an egg.

Someone mentioned the ATG thread? Where do I find it, as I'm new here and would like to read this.

Here's a link to the post inside the ATG Game thread which has all of the teams we have made so far.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cricket-chat/56705-atg-world-xis-game-97.html#post2865387

We've all been voting on players and once we get it organised, we are going to have a simulated test tournament between the top 16 sides. Join in if you want, the more votes the better!

 

[Migara]

I think he's taking the no.1 ranked spinner in the world to the cleaners later this year.

Thjng with the guys is, you can pit him against virtually any bowler from any era and there's usually an even chance that he'll come off and murder whoever he's facing. With spin, that probability ratchets up by 30% almost. He's that good; his general lack of trigger movements that comprise a problem against seam are helpful against spin where he can play the ball later than most.

Ajmal or Swann? Swann is hittable, and Umar Akmak showed how to do it. But Ajmal is a different kettle of fish. You can survive against him, but scoring is difficult, especially if it involved blasting the cover off the ball.

Sehwag should move down the order and bat at #6 for India letting better equipped players to take on pace. But Ajmal vs Sehwag would be a thrilling battle, and on current form, my money is on Ajmal.

 

[social]

Conversely Javed got more LBWs against him in away tests, No ?

Anyways here are the stats for LBW in home tests for both Javed and Waugh. I will let the readers decide If Javed had any advantage over Waugh or not.

In 60 Tests (or 86 Innings) at home Javed was given LBW 8 times.
In 89 Tests (or 140 innings) at home Waugh was given LBW 10 times.

Meh, stats meaning nothing shocker

Both were great players that had their weaknesses

Miandad's involved playing back and very square on to quick bowlers irrespective of the length

As a result he was prone to getting hit on the pads a lot early doors but fortunately for him, at home they very rarely gave him out as indicated by the following stats

Home: Lbw less than 10% of the time

Away: More than 25% of his dismissals (25 out of 95) were lbw

 

[Jager]

Moving Sehwag down the order is a ridiculous idea. He's an opener. His play style has been extremely successful to date at the top of the order, so why change his environment? He has support around him as an opener, so why force him into a position where he is likely to have to juggle the tail?

 

[vic_orthdox]

Grew up as a middle order batsman.

 

[weldone]

Here is what Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad did to the fammous Indian spin trio -

Bishan Bedi against Pakistan: 6 wickets @ 74.83
Bishan Bedi against other countries: 260 wickets @ 27.65

Erapalli Prasanna against Pakistan: 2 wickets @ 125.50
Erapalli Prasanna against other countries: 187 wickets @ 29.36

Bhagwat Chandrashekhar against Pakistan: 8 wickets @ 48.13
Bhagwat Chandrashekhar against other countries: 234 wickets @ 29.12

 

[The Sean]

Waugh made the CW ATG C XI and Miandad the E XI.

A fair reflection on the careers of both champions.

Would have both men a team or two lower, personally. I love SR Waugh in a fairly unhealthy way, but I could never justify him in an all time World 3rd XI.

 

[weldone]

Another way to look at Zaheer Abbas' dominance on Indian spin bowlers:

Zaheer Abbas scored 1740 runs @ 87.40 against India!

What is more astonishing is that out of the 20 times he was dismissed against India, Kapil Dev claimed his wicket 8 times, Madan Lal thrice, Roger Binny twice and Sunil Gavaskar once! Only 6 times he was dismissed by an Indian spinner!

...goes to show what he did to Bedi, Prasanna, Chandrashekhar, Doshi, Maninder, Shastri and Co....

 

[Top_Cat]

Meh, stats meaning nothing shocker

Both were great players that had their weaknesses

Miandad's involved playing back and very square on to quick bowlers irrespective of the length

As a result he was prone to getting hit on the pads a lot early doors but fortunately for him, at home they very rarely gave him out as indicated by the following stats

Home: Lbw less than 10% of the time

Away: More than 25% of his dismissals (25 out of 95) were lbw

Yeah, Miandad was one of those guys, you just went after the pads. Not that he was super weak but he just gave you a really good look at them. Not surprised he went out that way so often. That said, he only suffers proportionately; like Waugh, you paid all arvo if you gave him anything to cut or nurdle so you had to nail him in front or you just weren't going to get him.

Gun batsman and before Waugh really started to kick on around '95, he had it all over him but overall, I'd take S Waugh. Tough call in ODI's for mine because they had such different roles but you'd probably go Javed. Been no better judge of a single before or since, in my view.

 

[Sanz]

Meh, stats meaning nothing shocker

Both were great players that had their weaknesses

Miandad's involved playing back and very square on to quick bowlers irrespective of the length

As a result he was prone to getting hit on the pads a lot early doors but fortunately for him, at home they very rarely gave him out as indicated by the following stats

Home: Lbw less than 10% of the time

Away: More than 25% of his dismissals (25 out of 95) were lbw

11 out of those 25 came against India & SL in the 16 tests (23 completed innings) which means almost 50% of his dismissals were against two of their opponents who really reciprocated with their own biased umpiring . India didn't even have a decent fast bowler except Kapil.

Needless to say some of the best fast bowlers rarely toured pakistan and that can very well add to his better lbw record at home.

Now you can speculate all you want but the fact is that Miandad did get single out for LBW in away series especially against India.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Would have both men a team or two lower, personally. I love SR Waugh in a fairly unhealthy way, but I could never justify him in an all time World 3rd XI.

Think the World C XI is the fourth team.

 

[Migara]

Here is what Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad did to the fammous Indian spin trio -

Bishan Bedi against Pakistan: 6 wickets @ 74.83
Bishan Bedi against other countries: 260 wickets @ 27.65

Erapalli Prasanna against Pakistan: 2 wickets @ 125.50
Erapalli Prasanna against other countries: 187 wickets @ 29.36

Bhagwat Chandrashekhar against Pakistan: 8 wickets @ 48.13
Bhagwat Chandrashekhar against other countries: 234 wickets @ 29.12

All three played at their fag ends of the careers against Pakistan IIRC.

The following tour where WI played India in India, Bedi averaged 46. Then in England he averaged 35 for the series and retired.

Erapali Prasanna played his last series against the above two, and so was Chandra.

Simply they carted three 35+ year spinners who were nearing their retirement. Proves nothing.

 

[Dazinho]

Meh, stats meaning nothing shocker

Both were great players that had their weaknesses

Miandad's involved playing back and very square on to quick bowlers irrespective of the length

As a result he was prone to getting hit on the pads a lot early doors but fortunately for him, at home they very rarely gave him out as indicated by the following stats

Home: Lbw less than 10% of the time

Away: More than 25% of his dismissals (25 out of 95) were lbw

That's a stat that has to haunt Miandad and his legacy.

Wasn't there a near-riot when Nick Cook got an lbw on him in Pakistan?

It's got to be Waugh all the way - in fact, were I backing someone from the 90s onwards to make runs for my life I'd go for Steve.

Phenomenal under pressure, less so when the cooker was off - he re-modelled his game to become a certain type of batsman who could stay in for days on end.

Was he a great captain? Hard to tell since he always had the options of Warne and McGrath at his disposal. You can safely say he wasn't a bad one though, as their win record at the time backs him up nicely.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Have to go with Waugh. Such a great cricketer and incredible under pressure.