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Who do you rank higher? Stephen Waugh or Javed Miandad?

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Steve Waugh for me. Javed made a name for himself by beling good spinners, but would have gone down the same line of batsmen who followed him, if he was to play Murali, Warne and Kumble. At least Steve played Murali and Kumble quite well at home.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Steve Waugh for me. Javed made a name for himself by beling good spinners, but would have gone down the same line of batsmen who followed him, if he was to play Murali, Warne and Kumble. At least Steve played Murali and Kumble quite well at home.
Of course not.

Salim Malik was the first non-Indian batsman who played Warne really well. Miandad was a much better player of spin than him.

Secondly Murali's second worst or worst overall record is probably against Pakistan (IIRC, cbf looking it up) and had Miandad been around it probably would have been worse.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
'Ability to bat under pressure' is not one criterion that can work as a positive for any batsman while comparing to Miandad. Miandad's fighting spirit, his ability to bat under pressure, his ability to bat with the tailenders is the stuff of legends (just like in Waugh's second half).

'
awta
 

watson

Banned
Steve Waugh slightly better in Test Matches for mine, but Javed Miandad was brilliant at the 50 over game. Aggressive, imaginative, and lightening quick between the wickets like Dean Jones (Batting Average = 41, Strike Rate = 67).
 

flibbertyjibber

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The question of finding someone to bat for your life etc is well used but I would pick Steve Waugh for that every time so on that basis I have to go for him over Miandad. Not a lot in it though to be fair, Miandad was a bloody good player.
 

Debris

International 12th Man
'Ability to bat under pressure' is not one criterion that can work as a positive for any batsman while comparing to Miandad. Miandad's fighting spirit, his ability to bat under pressure, his ability to bat with the tailenders is the stuff of legends (just like in Waugh's second half).

On one famous occasion, Mr Sunil Gavaskar's wife (though not the best cricket expert :p ) was asked whom she'd want to bat if her team had to bat out a day for a draw ...one of those obvious questions journalists ask when they wanna hear the lady's husband's name from her mouth (also because Gavaskar had plenty of 4th innings heroics to his credit). To the journo's utter surprise, the lady's answer was Javed Miandad. She also went on to add - 'The man plays from his heart.'
I don't really know what to say to this other than....

You are welcome to your opinion but, with respect, I disagree.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Of course not.

Salim Malik was the first non-Indian batsman who played Warne really well. Miandad was a much better player of spin than him.

Secondly Murali's second worst or worst overall record is probably against Pakistan (IIRC, cbf looking it up) and had Miandad been around it probably would have been worse.
Worst is against AUS, second against IND, then may be PAK, but average is less than 25 IIRC. Bolded part is also wrong. Asanka Gurusinghe, Arjuna Ranatunga, Romesh Kaluwitharana and Hashan Tillekaratne all played Warne magnificiently, in Warne's fist tour to SL. Simply, Pakistan players good at playing spin is a myth. They even struggled againsy MacGill, who was carted around by Indians and Lankans.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Worst is against AUS, second against IND, then may be PAK, but average is less than 25 IIRC. Bolded part is also wrong. Asanka Gurusinghe, Arjuna Ranatunga, Romesh Kaluwitharana and Hashan Tillekaratne all played Warne magnificiently, in Warne's fist tour to SL. Simply, Pakistan players good at playing spin is a myth. They even struggled againsy MacGill, who was carted around by Indians and Lankans.
He averages a shade above 25 against Pakistan.

However Pak players being decent against spin is no myth pre-1995.

Especially in the 00s Pak batting was quite ****e which isn't a great revelation.

Just recently Russell Arnold and Waqar were talking on air about how well Saeed Anwar could play Murali.

For Pakistan, Warne was just a different kettle of fish. Completely screwed Pak batsman especially in the 00s
 

weldone

Hall of Fame Member
Simply, Pakistan players good at playing spin is a myth.
If that's a general comment, then not true. If specifically about Warne - then yes, there were quite a few times they struggled against Warne. If specifically about the last 20 years, then I'd say that they have been good in that time, though not as good as India, Australia and SL.

Zaheer Abbas has a good claim to be called the best player of spin bowling in like the last 40 years. Miandad was awesome against spin, Saeed Anwar was great, Younis Khan is very good, and so was Saleem Malik and Mohammad Yousuf (though many people won't agree with me on the Yousuf part). Even the thoroughly 'rubbish' batsman Shahid Afridi is serviceable against spin in spite of the brain-farts.

In history, Pakistan has been the 4th best country against spin:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

5th best in the last 20 years:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

They were the second best batting side against spin-bowling in the 70s and 80s right after India (and 'un'surprisingly above even West Indies). That was the time of Abbas and Miandad:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
 
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Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
If that's a general comment, then not true. If specifically about Warne - then yes, there were quite a few times they struggled against Warne. If specifically about the last 20 years, then I'd say that they have been good in that time, though not as good as India, Australia and SL.

Zaheer Abbas has a good claim to be called the best player of spin bowling in like the last 40 years. Miandad was awesome against spin, Saeed Anwar was great, Younis Khan is very good, and so was Saleem Malik and Mohammad Yousuf (though many people won't agree with me on the Yousuf part). Even the thoroughly 'rubbish' batsman Shahid Afridi is serviceable against spin in spite of the brain-farts.

In history, Pakistan has been the 4th best country against spin:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

5th best in the last 20 years:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

They were the second best batting side against spin-bowling in the 70s and 80s right after India (and 'un'surprisingly above even West Indies). That was the time of Abbas and Miandad:
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
I'd agree that Abbas and Miandad were good player of spin. But non in the class of Tendulkar, Azhar or Kapil, let alone Sidhu and Sehwag.

Still, he played spinners of lesser quality. Even when we consider spinners whom to take >10 wkts between 1973-1993, unsurprisingly, Kumble takes the 3rd spot, Warne the 4th, and Murali the 6th. At #2 and #6 are Intikab Alam and Mushtaq Mohammed. There nothing much to write home about Holford and Harper. Basically, Warne, Kumbe and Murali who have just played 10-20 matches till then, who were green in their careers, were doing what the experianced bowlers were doing between 1973-1993. What can be suggested is that the gulf between Murali, Warne and Kumble in class compared to the spinners nearly quarter century before that is just humungous. No player post 1970 would have seen something like above three spinners.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
emm hello????

Miandad and Zaheer were definitely in the class of the above guys in terms of playing spin....if not better.....playing pace for both of them was another matter though
 

Burgey

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Miandad was a flat track bully.

There, I said it.

Fine LO player I should say though. Could manipulate the strike beautifully.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
I'd agree that Abbas and Miandad were good player of spin. But non in the class of Tendulkar, Azhar or Kapil, let alone Sidhu and Sehwag.


I have personally never seen a better player of spin than B.C. Lara.
 
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Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Waugh

One of the main reasons being that Miandad was undoubtedly favoured by home umpires as evidenced by the low proportion of his dismissals by lbw when playing in Pakistan
Conversely Javed got more LBWs against him in away tests, No ?

Anyways here are the stats for LBW in home tests for both Javed and Waugh. I will let the readers decide If Javed had any advantage over Waugh or not.

In 60 Tests (or 86 Innings) at home Javed was given LBW 8 times.
In 89 Tests (or 140 innings) at home Waugh was given LBW 10 times.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
I don't want to talk about who is better I just want to reminisce about Javed's partnership with Imran in the '92 world cup final. Being a batsman myself I have always felt that you leave a bit of your self on the pitch at the end of a testing inning. I don't know if I have explained that well. Your very personality and character is tested and to win you have to stretch yourself. I thought he and Imran stood up for their country and had one of the classic ODI partnerships of all time.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
I watched Sidhu vs. Warne - He was brilliant, but I always felt he was more likely to play a rash shot against him compared to Lara but I never saw a Sidhu vs. Sri Lanka Test so I'm not sure how he went against Murali when Murali was a young bowler.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
I don't think I've seen anyone as disdainful of spin as Sehwag. He can be rash at times though the problem these days is he can't seem to last till the spinners come on.
 

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