Associate Nations' All Time XI

[Dazinho]

Given the OP rules, surprised everyone's letting RtD slide

That's a note to stay on topic yeah?

Apologies...

 

[Quaggas]

That's a note to stay on topic yeah?

Apologies...

Not at all, just curious

 

[BackFootPunch]

Given the OP rules, surprised everyone's letting RtD slide

Was just thinking the same thing. He's South African really isn't he?

 

[harsh.ag]

Dazinho, I think I was trying to build as good a Test team as possible. For that reason, wicket taking abilities are far more important than Lefebrve's strength, am I correct? And I am always reminded of my coach's saying with regards to bowlers who could bat a bit - if 7 batsmen couldn't do it, an 8th won't help either. So Mortensen-Hassan-Rankin should get the vote, no? Similarly, Davison is not a suitable test opener, I am sure you would agree.

 

[Chubb]

Chubb, haven't heard of Mr. Sathasivam?

I hadn't actually, although I guess I was trying not to pick anyone from a test country at all. For example I might have picked Duncan Fletcher and David Houghton but decided not to.

If you put Sathasivan in my team it strengthens it considerably, but is there anyone else you might pick from a country which has never played a test to open? I see some Afghans get mentioned but personally I don't know much about them.

I heard there was quite a good batsman from Bermuda who nearly played for the Windies once.

EDIT: found the Bermudan - Alma Hunt. Not enough of a first-class record to really judge him.

 

[Dan]

I hadn't actually, although I guess I was trying not to pick anyone from a test country at all. For example I might have picked Duncan Fletcher and David Houghton but decided not to.

If you put Sathasivan in my team it strengthens it considerably, but is there anyone else you might pick from a country which has never played a test to open? I see some Afghans get mentioned but personally I don't know much about them.

I heard there was quite a good batsman from Bermuda who nearly played for the Windies once.

EDIT: found the Bermudan - Alma Hunt. Not enough of a first-class record to really judge him.

Hunt top-scoring in both innings of the Test Trial (1933), also involving George Headley. He also took 3 wickets
The Home of CricketArchive

Makes 20 before falling to English leg-spinner and county giant Ian Peebles:
The Home of CricketArchive

Four of the first 5 wickets to fall:
The Home of CricketArchive

Three wickets & a 20 against the Bradman-less touring Australians (1938 vintage)
The Home of CricketArchive

Opens the batting and bowling (circa 1952):
The Home of CricketArchive

Looks decent, but hardly able to judge him on these returns.


In terms of openers, the only ones I can think of are Paul Stirling and Kyle Coetzer.

 

[Neil Pickup]

That's a note to stay on topic yeah?

Apologies...

Nope, just saying that if you're after players who grew up in an "unfriendly" environment, ten Doeschate doesn't qualify as the bloke is as South African they come..

 

[harsh.ag]

Neil is correct. So ten Doeschate goes as well. So we could put Shahzad in at number 3 and make Kervezee the opener. Team:

Porterfield | Kervezee | Shahzad | Sathasivam | Joyce | Tikolo | Niall o'Brien (w) | Mortensen | Dockrell/Sahabandu | Hassan | Rankin

 

[Migara]

These three spring to mind:

Clarrie Grimmett
Ranji
Andy Flower

These players did play for test sides eventually.

 

[Migara]

I hadn't actually, although I guess I was trying not to pick anyone from a test country at all. For example I might have picked Duncan Fletcher and David Houghton but decided not to.

If you put Sathasivan in my team it strengthens it considerably, but is there anyone else you might pick from a country which has never played a test to open? I see some Afghans get mentioned but personally I don't know much about them.

I heard there was quite a good batsman from Bermuda who nearly played for the Windies once.

EDIT: found the Bermudan - Alma Hunt. Not enough of a first-class record to really judge him.

FTR, SL never played an even ODI till Sathasivam retired. Hougton did play in a test side. Fletcher is a possible pick BTW.

 

[zaremba]

These players did play for test sides eventually.

Yes. As did Eoin Morgan and Gavin Hamilton, whom you picked.

 

[Migara]

Yes. As did Eoin Morgan and Gavin Hamilton, whom you picked.

They played for their own test team? didn't they? And we remeber Andy Flower as a Zimbabwe cricketer, but Hamilton as a Scottish one.

 

[zaremba]

Not sure what distinction you're drawing. Anyhow let's move on!

 

[Flametree]

Ravi Shah has a great record for Kenya so I'd have him in as an opener.

And Varaiya has to have the spinner's slot, his record in "international" matches is phenomenal.

If allowing players who didn't quite make it because they played before their sides became test nations, I'd include Rawson and Fletcher from Zimbabwe, and Tennekoon from Sri Lanka in addition to some of those mentioned....

 

[harsh.ag]

Flametree, Duncan Fletcher's record is actually below average, especially when compared to the people we have in the middle order: Shahzad, Sathasivam, Tikolo, Joyce, Niall. So who would you leave out? Even if we do drop Shahzad on account of having played too few matches (a quite reasonable thing to do), there is still Kevin o'Brien and Ashish Bagai who have better records. Rawson's record, too, is quite poor. Ravi Shah also has a hard time getting ahead of Porterfield and Kervezee in my book. Varaiya has a good FC record, but his ODI record leaves a lot to be desired, especially since Dockrell and Sahabandu have a good case as well. What do you think?

And I too think that Zaremba is correct that picking players who played test cricket at some point defeats the purpose of this thread. That's the reason that Eoin Morgan, Hamilton, George Headley, Ted Dexter, Graeme Hick, Mike Denness and the like have been disqualified from entering my XI.

Lastly, again reiterating my stand on disqualifying players who have grown up in a test playing nation, for example Tom Cooper, Trent Johnson, Dirk Nannes, Ryan ten Doeschate, David Hemp, Rizwaan Cheema, di Venuto and all. I do think that including them makes no sense.

Could any of you point out if the above two approaches have any faults?

 

[Flametree]

Rawson averaged 23 with the ball in first class cricket (and 20 with the bat) playing mostly for Zimbabwe in the Currie Cup. In the 80's Zimbabwe hosted lots of international sides, of varying standards (from "international wanderer" type collections to test-nation "A" or young international sides). His averages in those matches, which was the closest thing many of those players got to test cricket, were even better - mid-20s with the bat, 20 with the ball.

 

[harsh.ag]

I think you have got it spot on there about Rawson. Sorry, I discounted his FC record completely and took his average of 35 in ODIs (mostly from 1983 WC) at face value. He could be a very good addition to the side, ahead of Rankin.

So, for anybody keeping score, the team now is:

Porterfield | Kervezee | Shahzad | Sathasivam | Joyce | Tikolo | Niall (w) | Rawson | Hassan | Mortensen | Dockrell/ Sahabandhu |

Rest of Squad: Kevin o'Brien | Bagai | Stirling | Rankin | Odoyo |

 

[Flametree]

It's going back a bit, but Goonesene might be worth the spinner's spot. Was a nice article about him on Cricinfo not so long ago...