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Thread: Did any of the Great bowlers of the past chuck?

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    International Debutant salman85's Avatar
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    Did any of the Great bowlers of the past chuck?

    Perhaps this wasn't an issue in the past,or atleast not one that is monitored as closely as it is now,but did you ever see footage of a bowler that you were too young to see live,and wonder if the action was completely legal?

    I was going through some footage of Trueman today,and i thought there was a very prominent chuck on some deliveries.

    Fred Trueman - Englands greatest ever fast bowler - YouTube

    Watch the clip from 0:40 seconds on.

    Any other bowlers from the past who have made you wonder?
    Last edited by salman85; 28-04-2012 at 01:56 PM.

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    I would say it is impossible to speculate based on old videos as the cameras which they were produced on were ****.
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    International Debutant Eds's Avatar
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    Disagree re: Trueman. Looks as if he's got an almost perfectly straight arm, to me.
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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Apparently after his retirement Don Bradman used to give presentations at which he played slo-mo footage of a particular left-arm fast bowler whom he encouraged his audience to agree to be a chucker. This was footage of Harold Larwood (himself long retired) which had been reversed. Shows an unattractively bitter side to the Don.

    Now, one has to be wary of reading too much into 2D footage, but might the fast bowler whom Don praised to the heavens, Ray Lindwall, have a case to answer?
    Last edited by zaremba; 28-04-2012 at 02:37 PM. Reason: I am aware I have posted this Lindwall footage more than once before. Apologies for the repetition.


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    Hall of Fame Member Howe_zat's Avatar
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    Can't see anything suspect in the Trueman video.

    Edit:

    That looks like a straight elbow with a bent wrist, though it's obviously a poor angle with which to judge.

    The Lindwall one looks much shakier. These clips don't usually mean much given the film quality and the fact that even if that is a chuck, it's just one delivery. That said, it is supposed to be on a video showing us his action.

    As far as I've seen, cricket has pretty much always been at its most haphazard when trying to enforce these rules, so I can only assume that in a time when umpire reckoning was the sole tool available, it used to be even more so. There would have been plenty of bowlers not called when they should have been and called when they shouldn't have been.

    At the end of the day, we just have to go with what's in the book. We have to assume that, say, negative lbw decisions that would be given today were still legit, and we have to give the same benefit of the doubt to the umpires for throwing calls too.
    Last edited by Howe_zat; 28-04-2012 at 02:52 PM.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Trueman played in an era when chucking was the game's great controversy and I don't think it was ever suggested that he transgressed

    ... but at one time or other most fast bowlers were/are muttered about by batsmen who are beaten by sheer pace

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    State Captain slowfinger's Avatar
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    Nah he was fine
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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    fred, are you aware of any contemporary (or more recent) mutterings about Lindwall? Everything I've read suggests he had the most wonderfully pure bowling action. There's also Pathe news footage of him bowling, albeit in the nets and presumably at half speed, where there's nothing suspicious at all.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    fred, are you aware of any contemporary (or more recent) mutterings about Lindwall? Everything I've read suggests he had the most wonderfully pure bowling action. There's also Pathe news footage of him bowling, albeit in the nets and presumably at half speed, where there's nothing suspicious at all.
    No I don't think so - he copied Larwood's action, so it must have been fine

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    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    They (Trueman, Lindwall, Larwood) look to have a lot of wrist and just a touch of elbow in their actions, but it's well within the rules and no different to many modern bowlers.
    Last edited by wellAlbidarned; 28-04-2012 at 05:06 PM.
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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Don't see much wrong with either of them (Lindwall and Trueman). The lesser frames per second make them look a little more jerky.

    Saw some footage of Lock for the first time a while ago, that wasn't pretty.

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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Yeah, someone posted a vid of the "chucking controversy" of the 50s and 60s a while back and Lock's quicker ball looks a tad rancid.

    It also mentioned Meckiff and the three other Australian chucking Amigos too: Keith Slater, Gordon Rourke & Jimmy Burke. The Latter's action is just comical.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Yeah, Burke's and Lock's actions especially look pretty terrible.
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    International Debutant Jager's Avatar
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    No idea where I read it, but Lock did realise he was throwing once he'd seen his own action on film. He then re-modelled his action and continued taking wickets.
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    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Alec Bedser.




    It's funny, but the action for the great man's delivery where he's deliberately getting some elbow into it still looks better than a few we're forced to endure nowadays.

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