Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: West Indies in England 1980

  1. #1
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    It is a far far better place ............ etc etc
    Posts
    12,036

    West Indies in England 1980

    West Indies in England 1980

    Gareth reappraises West Indies' first post-Packer tour to England under Clive Lloyd in 1980

  2. #2
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    8,904
    Good piece - thanks for writing it. I would add that England would probably have won the first test had not Gower, of all people, not dropped a sitter when Roberts skied an attempted swipe at, I think, Hendrick. As you say, Roberts went on to play a vital innings to see WI home. Had we won that test, given what followed, we would also have won the series, albeit rather luckily. One wonders whether Lloyd's captaincy would have survived successive losses, especially after his side's shocking behaviour in NZ.
    Last edited by wpdavid; 22-04-2012 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #3
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    at home
    Posts
    4,215
    My Youtube cricket channels, thousands of gold old videos

    http://www.youtube.com/user/robelinda2

    http://www.youtube.com/user/robelinda

  4. #4
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,923
    There are 4 straight draws yet not many runs scored. Was it a wet summer with time lost due to bad weather?
    "Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong" - Oscar Wilde


  5. #5
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,195
    Excellent piece, up there with one of fred's own and praise doesn't come much higher than that.

    The pedant in me has to question this tho:

    "The four quick bowlers - none of whom bowled more than 14 overs in the innings - shared the 10 wickets evenly."

    Two and a half each then?
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "as much a news event as an actual footballer, a worthy stop-start centre forward, but an all-time hyper-galactico when it comes to doing funny things with cars and hats, a player whose signing proves once again that the Premier League is still undoubtedly the best in the world when it comes to doing things with cars and hats."
    - Barney Ronay on Mario Balotelli

  6. #6
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    at home
    Posts
    4,215
    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    There are 4 straight draws yet not many runs scored. Was it a wet summer with time lost due to bad weather?
    LOTS of rain in the 2nd,3rd and 5th tests, especially. 4th test was affected too, one day was washed out, day 5 wasn't a whole day. 5th test lost 2 full days to rain.

  7. #7
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,923
    Thanks robelinda.

    I also wonder whether Botham's inability to score against the Windies in the 80's puts doubt on him being a truly great all-rounder. In this particular series he averaged only 18.77 runs per innings according to the article.

    Also, Botham's highest ever score was only 80 something. Yet both Imran and Hadlee managed to score superb centuries at home. Imran hit 123 runs off Marshall, Garner, Croft and Clarke after coming in at 5/95 while Hadlee belted 102 runs from only 92 balls while facing Holding, Roberts, Garner and Croft.

    Or am I being a bit harsh?
    Last edited by watson; 24-04-2012 at 07:29 AM. Reason: spelling

  8. #8
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    at home
    Posts
    4,215
    Not being harsh, Botham looked all at sea as a batsman playing the best quicks, especially the mighty WI bowlers.

  9. #9
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    It is a far far better place ............ etc etc
    Posts
    12,036
    There's no doubt that the WIndies were a blot on Botham's cricketing CV but I don't think its as bad as some make out - he really shouldn't have been burdened with the captaincy in 1980 or 80/81 and I am sure that having to do that job too did affect his form - the only time he played against them when he didn't have that job and was still somewhere near the top of his game was in 1984 when he did as well as anyone - by 1985/86, when he was crap again, he was only half the player he once was and it showed.

  10. #10
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    I don't know, but its dark!!!!!
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by robelinda View Post
    Not being harsh, Botham looked all at sea as a batsman playing the best quicks, especially the mighty WI bowlers.

    I wouldn't agree with that. He played them as well as most, and because of his friendships with some of them they were always keen to get him.

    Anyone who thinks Hadlee was a better batsman than Botham needs their head read - and I wouldd be very comfortable putting Botham nicely ahead of Imran as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    Good piece - thanks for writing it. I would add that England would probably have won the first test had not Gower, of all people, not dropped a sitter when Roberts skied an attempted swipe at, I think, Hendrick. As you say, Roberts went on to play a vital innings to see WI home. Had we won that test, given what followed, we would also have won the series, albeit rather luckily. One wonders whether Lloyd's captaincy would have survived successive losses, especially after his side's shocking behaviour in NZ.
    I think when the chance happened the Windies only wanted 10 or less to win so it was likely done anyway. It was a very tight finish though.

    I remember Alan Knott being given LBW (I think by Don Oslear) - a dreadful decision. Malcolm Marshall was bowling round the wicket (and he didn't swing the ball much in those days) wide on the crease. He bowled a short ball wnhich Knott ducked - the ball didn't bounce but was still going oveer the stumps. It also pitched outside the leg stump, hit Knott outside the line of the leg stump and even if it had been a shooter wouldn't have hit leg stump. Even if Knott had only made 20 - and he was more than capable of that - England would likely have won the match, and given the later rain the series.

    It was one of those summers that was truely 4 nice days and a washout.

    I was a Surrey member at the time and recall the Saturday at The Oval when the ground went from bone dry to totally under water in 20 minutes. England were favourites to win on the 4th day and looked likely to have a big first innings lead then Garner and Holding out of nowhere swung the bat and put on 70 or so runs and the whole mood changed. I well recall the last morning being very cold and grey and the West Indian bowlers getting on top. For a long while they looked certain to win and it wasn't until Willey and Willis had batted together for about 2 hours that a draw seemed even possible. It got rather tense for a while then.

    Other memories:

    The key innings in the 1st match was actually from Deryck Murray. England were well on top and his innings, although he played and missed a lot, dragged his team up.

    The 100s by Gooch and Richards at Lords were superb. I was atThe Oval shortly before this game and remember hearing one of the umpires, Bill Alley, loudly proclaiming that Gooch "will never make a Test player......"

    Brian Rose's debut innings was excellent - he looked made for the part. Hardly played after that series.

  11. #11
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    It is a far far better place ............ etc etc
    Posts
    12,036
    There is a documentary on ITV4 tonight about Botham and 1981 at 8pm

  12. #12
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    8,904
    Quote Originally Posted by Biryani Pillow View Post
    I think when the chance happened (Gower dropping Roberts) the Windies only wanted 10 or less to win so it was likely done anyway. It was a very tight finish though.

    I remember Alan Knott being given LBW (I think by Don Oslear) - a dreadful decision. Malcolm Marshall was bowling round the wicket (and he didn't swing the ball much in those days) wide on the crease. He bowled a short ball wnhich Knott ducked - the ball didn't bounce but was still going oveer the stumps. It also pitched outside the leg stump, hit Knott outside the line of the leg stump and even if it had been a shooter wouldn't have hit leg stump. Even if Knott had only made 20 - and he was more than capable of that - England would likely have won the match, and given the later rain the series.

    Brian Rose's debut innings was excellent - he looked made for the part. Hardly played after that series.
    My memory of the Gower drop is that it mattered, but I won't pretend to recall exactly how many were needed. Probably not many, but if that had brought the number 11 to the crease then we must have had a chance.

    I also remember the Knott dismissal - in much the same terms as you described.

    As for Rose, wasn't there an issue with his eyesight soon after this series? Grecian might know.

  13. #13
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    I don't know, but its dark!!!!!
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    There is a documentary on ITV4 tonight about Botham and 1981 at 8pm
    Saw it last week.

    Pretty good.

    You see a few drops by Botham in the 1st Test but the one that cost that game came from Downton when he put down Border in the first knock. Border was only on about five at the time and added 60 more - allowing Australia to add 80 or 90. It was a pretty sporty pitch and they struggled to get 120 for 6 to win.

    If England had won that game the rest wouldn't have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post
    My memory of the Gower drop is that it mattered, but I won't pretend to recall exactly how many were needed. Probably not many, but if that had brought the number 11 to the crease then we must have had a chance.

    I also remember the Knott dismissal - in much the same terms as you described.

    As for Rose, wasn't there an issue with his eyesight soon after this series? Grecian might know.
    I'll age myself by saying I missed the last ten runs of that game because I had to head off to my O Level Physics Exam (passed thank you very much) and the drop happened after I'd left. Roberts was batting 9 so there were 2 more to come - and Haynes was out just before the end.

    I think you're correct about Rose - might have been two or three years later if memory serves. Certainly recall him wearing glasses at the end of his career.

  14. #14
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,923
    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    There's no doubt that the WIndies were a blot on Botham's cricketing CV but I don't think its as bad as some make out - he really shouldn't have been burdened with the captaincy in 1980 or 80/81 and I am sure that having to do that job too did affect his form - the only time he played against them when he didn't have that job and was still somewhere near the top of his game was in 1984 when he did as well as anyone - by 1985/86, when he was crap again, he was only half the player he once was and it showed.

    I think you are right fredfertang in assuming that the burden of captaincy influenced Botham's game. His1981 tour of the West Indies was a disaster. In 7 innings he averaged only 10.42 with a highest score of 26.

    However, Botham scored 3 x 50's in 10 innings during the 1984 home series at an average of 34.7. Not bad I guess.

    In summary;

    Botham batting average (1980-1991) V West Indies = 21.40

    Imran batting average (1977-1990) V West Indies = 27.67

    Hadlee batting average (1980-1987) V West Indies = 32.41

    Kapil Dev batting average (1978-1989) V West Indies = 30.82 (Highest Score was 126*)

    All useful contributions if batting at number 7 or 8. Especially Hadlee and Dev.
    Last edited by watson; 24-04-2012 at 03:37 PM. Reason: Hadlee stat



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. *Official* South Africa in West Indies
    By James in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 1175
    Last Post: 04-07-2010, 06:37 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •