Burgey
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Kicked into the man on the mark, I'd say.
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So why do England play spin so abysmally now?
- Thread starter wpdavid
- Start date
Burgey
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Because we aren't just talking about India, we're talking about the SC as a whole.
/itsnotallaboutyouguys
vic_orthdox
Global Moderator
Marc Murphy was in that team as well.
Deledio got offered a rookie contract at the end of that season, in an attempt to try and entice him to stay with cricket. He knocked it back, just preferred Aussie Rules as a sport. Was never a chance of staying. Pace bowler, got them through well and could move it around, had a really good U/17 carnival with the bat too.
Contra
Cricketer Of The Year
Most of the teams mentioned (England aside) have played India in India. So it's not the worst of ideas to use India as the yardstick. Besides despite winning 1-0 Aussies were pretty **** in SL for the most part barring the already established spin players like Clarke and Hussey, Marsh had 2 good knocks as well but that's about it. SA are still the best bet in the SC, they had a really good trip back in 07/08 where they beat PAK and almost came close to beating India.
I forget did Australia play a test match in B-desh after the WC? Probably worth looking into as well if they did.
Regardless, Kallis, Amla and DeVillers is definitely not the kind of middle order I'd want to face in the SC.
Spark
Global Moderator
Uhh... what? Marsh only batted three times in that series (and the other one he forgot to review one he'd missed by about three inches). Hughes also got a century. That only really leaves Ponting, Watson, Khawaja (who only had two proper digs, both at Galle) and Haddin who you'd say really struggled, which is hardly terrible.
If the 2nd Test had actually somewhere close to full time available, we'd have won and won with ease. Saying we were pretty **** in SL is so far from the truth it's not funny. We were the better side in that series by a long, long way. It's starting to get on my nerves now, really, people continually harping on about how **** we supposedly are away from home despite the fact that we weren't beaten in our last two away series, and how rubbish we'll be on the subcontinent when we deservedly won our last series there.
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Flem274*
123/5
Don't lump us in with SA, England and Aus. The only kiwi who is sub-par against spin is Guptill. Had big issues with Rehman last time Pakistan were here. Bar the third test in India (where the seamers killed us, but without Zaheer - go figure) the batsmen who are still in the team today handled the spinners well. McIntosh wasn't terrible either. Watling struggled pretty hard though.
/optimisticandslightlytroll
/optimisticandslightlytroll
Andre
International Regular
Kinda an interesting insight to countries mentalities on it though this thread, isn't it?
Most people have defended their teams ability against it, but truth be told its a problem for all 4 sides mentioned who tour the sub-continent, 1 or 2 good players of spin aside.
It's a real out of sight out of mind issue - cause they don't really see much quality spin in favourable conditions, it isn't highlighted as something that needs working on because they just don't see it as relevant till they tour there, and the majority of spinners in their domestic competitions are there to give quicks a rest do they don't get challenged on a local level.
Mentally, that makes facing quality spin in favourable conditions as foreign to them - and occasionally we can get pushed over as easy as SC teams in this part of the world do.
Most people have defended their teams ability against it, but truth be told its a problem for all 4 sides mentioned who tour the sub-continent, 1 or 2 good players of spin aside.
It's a real out of sight out of mind issue - cause they don't really see much quality spin in favourable conditions, it isn't highlighted as something that needs working on because they just don't see it as relevant till they tour there, and the majority of spinners in their domestic competitions are there to give quicks a rest do they don't get challenged on a local level.
Mentally, that makes facing quality spin in favourable conditions as foreign to them - and occasionally we can get pushed over as easy as SC teams in this part of the world do.
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Spark
Global Moderator
Oh I'm not saying we're good, in general, against spin at all, and I shudder to think of what half-decent spinners will do to a lineup without our big three - hell, even without Ponting and Hussey as Clarke surely can't do it on his own.
But let's call a spade a spade here. We were fine in SL.
But let's call a spade a spade here. We were fine in SL.
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Flem274*
123/5
Definitely agree there. I can't speak for SA, Aus, Eng, but in the PS it's only recently we've had a number of very aggressive spinners, helped by two leggies establishing themselves in their provincial sides.
Until this happened, Jeetan Patel and Nathan McCullum were the order of the day for a number of seasons, the odd wicket taking spinner aside.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
Scary thing is that we have Flower in charge of the senior side and Thorpe is the the Loins' batting coach and they were as good players of spin as ever to emerge from outside of the subcontinent that I've seen. If they can't polish our collective turd I think we're ****ed, tbh.
Must've been some fearsomely competitive pick up games of footy in vic's U17 team, btw.
Must've been some fearsomely competitive pick up games of footy in vic's U17 team, btw.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
If you want to talk about dominating spin in India, Andy Flower was by far the best I have EVER seen. He just decimated spin.
Spark
Global Moderator
Gooch is your batting coach, right? No lack of expertise there either...
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Not always surely, but since I am watching cricket (from 1991-92) they have always been piss-poor against spin except some guys like Gooch, Thorpe. Incidentally I personally think that the current crop is best against spin as a whole compared to England teams in the last 20 years - Bell, Trott, Pietersen and Strauss are all relatively decent against spin IMO (not of Gooch or Thorpe standard perhaps, but better than your average English batsman of the last 20 years).
Burgey
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Yeah but Bob Simpson was a great opening batsman. Having him in charge of Australia didn't make Geoff Marsh the new Jack Hobbs.
Spark
Global Moderator
I think it's worth watching this. Might illuminate why the **** they insist on playing such bad sweep shots.
Ian Bell Masterclass Video Part 1 - YouTube
Using a paddle sweep to manipulate the legside fielder for one? God above.
Ian Bell Masterclass Video Part 1 - YouTube
Using a paddle sweep to manipulate the legside fielder for one? God above.
Hurricane
Hall of Fame Member
Debris
International 12th Man
I will concede they are better against spin than pace.
Spikey
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I look forward to the Mitchell Johnson masterclass when he reveals he only bowls short wide rubbish so as to change the attitude of the batsman
smash84
The Tiger King
Bell and Pietersen have been very bad against spin of late.
Trott is decent and Strauss is somewhere in the middle
It is difficult to imagine that this is the same Pietersen who started off by taking the attack to Shane Warne
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
I know, but I was not talking about their form only...