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So why do England play spin so abysmally now?

Burgey

Burgey

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Andre said:
It's a funny one. The teams that struggle against spin on a very regular basis are England, Australia, South Africa and NZ.

There is a pretty common trend there that all 4 countries really struggle to produce spinners too. They tend to use them to rest quicks or tie up an end, so there is no exposure to attacking spin bowling.

Hence, the habit is to rock back, don't do anything silly and see them off. You can't do that against really good quality attacking spinners - they adjust and come out on top.

It's no coincidence that the best players of spin in the world - Clarke, Younis etc - play with every positive intent, avoid the cross-bat shots to balls that will hit the wicket and use their feet to a high percentage of the balls to meet them down the wicket
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Please don't lump our ability against spin in with England and SA. I mean, come on.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Andre said:
It kills me, but last 2-3 years we'd be hard to beat as worst players of it.

In the past we've been terrific.
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I think we went pretty well in SL last time. Before that, it's probably no small coincidence that our playing it badly coincided with an overall loss of form from Clarke and Ponting.
 
Andre

Andre

International Regular
Burgey said:
I think we went pretty well in SL last time. Before that, it's probably no small coincidence that our playing it badly coincided with an overall loss of form from Clarke and Ponting.
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Yeah you're right in the sense that Clarke and Ponting struggling really hurt us and that we handled things ok in SL. A lot of our spin struggles are when we have to score runs at a decent clip or are playing limited over stuff.

But between some of our guys - and concerningly, a lot of young guys coming through - we've struggled really really badly. Guys like Watson, Warner etc really seem to struggle against the good spinners.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Andre said:
Yeah you're right in the sense that Clarke and Ponting struggling really hurt us and that we handled things ok in SL. A lot of our spin struggles are when we have to score runs at a decent clip or are playing limited over stuff.

But between some of our guys - and concerningly, a lot of young guys coming through - we've struggled really really badly. Guys like Watson, Warner etc really seem to struggle against the good spinners.
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Always thought Warner was class against spin, tbh...

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Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Lately I feel Australia have been fine against spin in tests, but rather struggled against spin in ODI cricket. Get bogged down a lot more in that format.
 
Contra

Contra

Cricketer Of The Year
How can people group SA with Aus, Eng and NZ when it comes to playing spin? SA is the clear winner, Amla was a monster last time SA toured India, Kallis has been awesome as well. Duminy and Prince could use some work, and DeVilliers for the most part is excellent too (although I have some personal benchmarks for him that he hasn't achieved so I don't rate him as highly, but still). Australia have improved a bit, although it as mostly Ponting who chipped in with a few 70's last time around. Clarke's there as well, the rest need some work. NZ aren't all that great period. And the less said about Eng vs Spin atm the better.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Jono said:
Lately I feel Australia have been fine against spin in tests, but rather struggled against spin in ODI cricket. Get bogged down a lot more in that format.
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That's because you've basically only seen Ponting/Clarke/Hussey batting in Tests.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
I think that limited overs cricket growing up has had an increasing impact. If you told Kevin Pietersen that it was a T20 and to take on Herath, he'd probably be more successful in countering Herath than batting at his own pace. Players have the ability to hit big shots far more often, but struggle to manipulate spinners, and score with a lower risk game.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
vic_orthdox said:
I think that limited overs cricket growing up has had an increasing impact. If you told Kevin Pietersen that it was a T20 and to take on Herath, he'd probably be more successful in countering Herath than batting at his own pace. Players have the ability to hit big shots far more often, but struggle to manipulate spinners, and score with a lower risk game.
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Yeah I agree. Sooo many block/slog merchants going around nowadays.
 
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