Vernon Philander - Here to stay, or a Flash in the pan?

[morgieb]

Looking at his FC record, he's here to stay. Philander could even be better than Steyn.

 

[Debris]

I will vote for "flash in the pan" or at least a much lesser bowler than he appears now. All his tests to date have been on pitches helpful to him and I think he will hit a wall when he bowls on non-friendly pitches.

 

[Ikki]

But would people say Steyn is a flash in the pan? I doubt it. Yet he is outbowling him - seemingly (I haven't watched) - and Steyn is also playing on these pitches.

 

[Howe_zat]

Steadily building an irrational hate for Philander. Who does he think he is, coming into Test cricket from nowhere and being all brilliant at it? Takes the piss. And he's overshadowing Steyn, which is annoying. And he's got ludicrous figures without actually doing anything ludicrous, he's just been playing well, which is dull and annoying. And he has a silly name.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Steadily building an irrational hate for Philander. Who does he think he is, coming into Test cricket from nowhere and being all brilliant at it? Takes the piss. And he's overshadowing Steyn, which is annoying. And he's got ludicrous figures without actually doing anything ludicrous, he's just been playing well, which is dull and annoying. And he has a silly name.

Ha!

 

[Eds]

Steadily building an irrational hate for Philander. Who does he think he is, coming into Test cricket from nowhere and being all brilliant at it? Takes the piss. And he's overshadowing Steyn, which is annoying. And he's got ludicrous figures without actually doing anything ludicrous, he's just been playing well, which is dull and annoying. And he has a silly name.

Phenomenal post.

 

[kingjulian]

This thread will keep getting bumped for many years coming.

That's the best thing about internet!!

It's second only to making a big booger roll...

 

[M0rphin3]

Don't think he'd surpass Steyn tbh, but he's surely gonna end up as the 2nd greatest SA pacer IMO. And obviously not judging by the stats, he's got the variations to thrive in any sort of conditions.

 

[Manee]

But would people say Steyn is a flash in the pan? I doubt it. Yet he is outbowling him - seemingly (I haven't watched) - and Steyn is also playing on these pitches.

I don't think people are criticizing Philander for bowling well on these pitches. I think the intuition is that initial performances on these pitches have been indicative, in the past, of someone without longevity, such that they lose the ability to perform on even those tracks. For example, Bob Massie wasn't going to take 8 wickets in every match on a helpful pitch nor can Mendis absolutely kill a team on a spinning track currently, like he did in his first year. I've not explained that very well, but I'm trying to unpack the intuition that is only natural to come to, about him due to the seeming disproportion of his performance to his speed, bounce and swing. He has strung a good 6 Tests together, but it is essentially 6 Tests.

It is sort of like Ryan Sidebottom really. Sidebottom got 76 wickets at 24.84 and then fell away rapidly. I think the fear about him is that he'll just suddenly shift to mediocrity, like Ajantha Mendis did really. Philander's outstanding domestic record separates him from Sidebottom and the fact he is a pace bowler separates him from Mendis, but then check out Mendis' domestic record.

BTW, not watched SA Vs NZ game, but the ball Morkel used to dismiss Bracewell was awesome!

 

[slowfinger]

Why are we amaking assumptions on a guy whos played 6 tests?!!!

 

[Arachnodouche]

Mendis had the weird action thing going for him though. Philander is doing time-honored things to a nicety. He doesn't do outrageous things with the ball; all you really need is a little wobble and a little nip to catch the edge. And he hammers away at a consistent channel more often than not. I think he'll do just fine over time.

EDIT: Unless he gets fat, which those child-bearing hips seem to indicate a propensity towards.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Steadily building an irrational hate for Philander. Who does he think he is, coming into Test cricket from nowhere and being all brilliant at it? Takes the piss. And he's overshadowing Steyn, which is annoying. And he's got ludicrous figures without actually doing anything ludicrous, he's just been playing well, which is dull and annoying. And he has a silly name.

That's how I feel about Bresnan. How dare he try and overtake the great Imran.

I think Philander will do well on dead pitches. He doesn't rely on much movement and just needs the ball to do a little bit. So even if he gets the ball to swing a little bit, he will be tough to play.

 

[Manee]

Mendis had the weird action thing going for him though. Philander is doing time-honored things to a nicety. He doesn't do outrageous things with the ball; all you really need is a little wobble and a little nip to catch the edge. And he hammers away at a consistent channel more often than not. I think he'll do just fine over time.

Ah yes. That is where the Sidebottom comparison comes in. There has not been a bowler in recent times, of a striking similarity in style and pedigree though - that much is agreed, as is the definite uncertainty about how his career will go.

 

[The_roc]

Good signing for Somerset?

 

[Manee]

I think his performance for Somerset will really show how his international career is to pan out being that he will be playing on flat pitches, with a high workload and outside South Africa.

Is he going to be available for much?

 

[Furball]

I think his performance for Somerset will really show how his international career is to pan out being that he will be playing on flat pitches, with a high workload and outside South Africa.

Is he going to be available for much?

All of the first half of the season. South Africa's next international commitment is their tour of England.

 

[OhhhhMattyMatty]

How in God's name the likes of Morne Morkel, Tsotsobe and Parnell got picked ahead of him for years is astonishing. He's as good as McGrath, but he's got a better outswinger as well. Sure he's got a bit to prove in Asia, and even in England and Australia, but he'll finish with 250+ wickets (if he doesn't get crippled) at an average of 20 or so no trouble.

While England had the most complete attack in world cricket with the likes of Anderson, Broad, Finn, Tremlett, Bresnan, Onions, Swann and Panesar, I would say Philander's arrival has pushed the South Africa attack ahead now, they have every base covered.

Steyn, Philander, Morkel, de Lange, Tsotsobe, Parnell, Tahir, Botha and Peterson.

Pace, swing, bounce, spin, consistency, wicket-takers, right-handed, left-handed and even a leggie. Bring back Paul Adams and they'd have a Chinaman too!

England's attack is sublime and most of their reserves would walk into any side in the world, but in Steyn and Philander, South Africa have the world's best new ball attack and their 3rd choice seamer, their spinner and even their 5th bowler, are far from weak links!

I'll still back England to win this Summer, but the job is twice as tough now!

 

[Eds]

He's as good as McGrath

Behave.

 

[Furball]

How in God's name the likes of Morne Morkel, Tsotsobe and Parnell got picked ahead of him for years is astonishing. He's as good as McGrath, but he's got a better outswinger as well. Sure he's got a bit to prove in Asia, and even in England and Australia, but he'll finish with 250+ wickets (if he doesn't get crippled) at an average of 20 or so no trouble.

While England had the most complete attack in world cricket with the likes of Anderson, Broad, Finn, Tremlett, Bresnan, Onions, Swann and Panesar, I would say Philander's arrival has pushed the South Africa attack ahead now, they have every base covered.

Steyn, Philander, Morkel, de Lange, Tsotsobe, Parnell, Tahir, Botha and Peterson.

Pace, swing, bounce, spin, consistency, wicket-takers, right-handed, left-handed and even a leggie. Bring back Paul Adams and they'd have a Chinaman too!

England's attack is sublime and most of their reserves would walk into any side in the world, but in Steyn and Philander, South Africa have the world's best new ball attack and their 3rd choice seamer, their spinner and even their 5th bowler, are far from weak links!

I'll still back England to win this Summer, but the job is twice as tough now!

Only 2 of the bowlers you've named would be in with a shot of getting into England's first XI - Morkel would be in the Lions and the rest would struggle to get into England's 'C' team.

 

[Manee]

Disagree, I think Morkel is as good if not better than Finn and Broad.