Vernon Philander - Here to stay, or a Flash in the pan?

[Ruckus]

We're taking about the "c" word here are we?

In all fairness to Big Vern he's appreciably quicker than Copeland; in fact his average speed doesn't lose much in comparison with Anderson, Bresnan or Broad if the just concluded test series is anything to go by.

Didn't Copeland stink out the joint in 2011/12 too?

He's def quicker, but not by that much. His average speed would be around 130 I reckon, where as Copeland's 120-125 (and Copeland can touch on 130 if he really tries too, but usually with a bouncer). Philander's speed drops below 130 plenty of times as well. The quicker pace no doubt would contribute a bit to his success, but more importantly, I think Philander gets move seam movement than Copeland and makes the batsmen play much more often . The main problem that I had with Copeland wasn't his pace, but the line he favored - a bit too far outside off for my liking...he needs to vary it up a bit more.

 

[KungFu_Kallis]

Mr C is about 6'8 tall though, probly makes up for less woosh out of the hand with more bouncey bounce off the wicket

 

[benchmark00]

Mr C is about 6'8 tall though, probly makes up for less woosh out of the hand with more bouncey bounce off the wicket

Copeland is like 6'3''.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Mate, I saw him warm up at the SCG and he was 6'5

/thierryhenry

 

[SteveNZ]

Interesting that in a radio interview with Ross Taylor this morning when asked who was the most difficult of the SA bowlers he mentioned that it was clearly Steyn & Morkel and went on to say whilst Philander is a fine bowler, he felt he got many wickets on the back of the pressure the former two had applied.

I don't know what compelled Ross to say that. In Dunedin, Philander was the best by a long stretch. Steyn and Morkel couldn't find a thing out of the pitch yet Philander was beating the bat regularly, finding seam movement where no one else could. In Hamilton, Steyn was better but Morkel had nothing. Philander was outstanding.

The only thing I can think of is that Philander isn't as quick as the other two so Ross meant we eased up because we were less intimidated.

And as Flem said, it's that age old pace crap. If a bowler can get something more out of a deck by remaining in it a touch longer (read that he is a bit slower) then all power to him.

 

[Top_Cat]

He's def quicker, but not by that much. His average speed would be around 130 I reckon, where as Copeland's 120-125 (and Copeland can touch on 130 if he really tries too, but usually with a bouncer). Philander's speed drops below 130 plenty of times as well. The quicker pace no doubt would contribute a bit to his success, but more importantly, I think Philander gets move seam movement than Copeland and makes the batsmen play much more often .

Yeah, shows the difference, again, between gun speed and what the batsmen see. The extra oomph Philander gets is because he hits the seam regularly. Someone like McGrath is a decent example, would hazard to say he 'felt' significantly faster than the gun showed, his bouncer generally shocked several shades of **** out of who was unfortunate enough to be at the business end. And, well, that's what matters.

Would suggest Copeland's line is a function of the job he was asked to do by Clarke, reckon he was in much tighter for NSW.

 

[Pup Clarke]

I think another underrated difference is arm speed between two similarily paced bowlers. Someone like Wasim 'ran through the crease' and was quick between his delivery stride to his follow-through. From what I've seen, Copeland bowls close to the stumps and has an orthodox high arm action that batsman can sort of 'line up' and adjust to seam movement and swing accordingly.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think another underrated difference is arm speed between two similarily paced bowlers. Someone like Wasim 'ran through the crease' and was quick between his delivery stride to his follow-through. From what I've seen, Copeland bowls close to the stumps and has an orthodox high arm action that batsman can sort of 'line up' and adjust to seam movement and swing accordingly.

Yup, it takes away some visual cues for a batsman when that happens and makes everything seem quicker. It's also why even when Tait wasn't bowling super quick on the radar, people found him quick, because the ball seemed to come out of nowhere.

 

[Top_Cat]

And could literally land anywhere.

 

[NUFAN]

NUFAN would be seething whilst reading this post.

Don't get me started on Copeland! It would be like everyone raving about Daniel Mortimer to play for NSW in the Origin.

The blokes averaged almost 100 with the ball last year and is big danger of being axed from the NSW team. Looking forward to seeing how Jackson Bird goes this year..

 

[BackFootPunch]

And could literally land anywhere.

Or not land, in some cases.

 

[Top_Cat]

Indeed.

Would kill to see him back in whites for SA.