Chasing targets in ODIs

[Jono]

So there is a pretty interesting discussion happening in the tri-series thread right now about whether Dhoni's innings was good or not.

I don't want to make this thread solely about Dhoni's knock tonight however, more-so the question of what is a good chase and also a discussion of the best chasers we've seen in ODIs

On Cricinfo's ball-by-ball this stat was mentioned:

Here's another interesting stat from Rajneesh Gupta: "Highest batting avg in successful chases (Min.25 inns): Dhoni (104.89), M Clarke (89.20),Bevan (86.25) & M Hussey (83.87)."

I've always had Bevan, Dhoni and Hussey 3 of the best lower-order batsmen I've ever seen in ODI cricket in general, though chasing is where they are obviously at their best. Klusener definitely up there as well.

Clarke is an interesting one. Not sure how much of that record was in the first half of his ODI career, but nevertheless it is an amazing record.

Not outs obviously shouldn't be an issue here, because the better batsman in lower-order chases obviously are not out at the end. ****s me to tears when people have a go at Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey's ODI records mentioning not outs.

Who else are some of the best ODI chasers in cricket, and what did they do to make it always under control? Bevan didn't necessarily keep it to 12 off the last over to win, but Dhoni has won chases like this before (though his strike-rate has been generally higher). Hussey seems to be an in-between of Dhoni and Bevan.

And finally, are the batsmen that are the best at chasing also the best when batting first innings and setting totals? Or is their record not as good in such scenarios. I reckon Dhoni's record between 1st and 2nd innings could have a huge disparity.

 

[Spark]

Not surprised to see Clarke so high at all tbh. Pulled off an exceptional chasing knock last year vs England chasing something enormous, and was hardly in top nick at the time.

Dhoni is a superb chaser - tonight wasn't just a good example of how he usually plays, that's all. But his temperament is outstanding.

 

[Shri]

Will be back when the thread is 5 pages long and neck deep in a ****ty Bevan Vs Dhoni discussion.

 

[Jono]

**** that was seriously not the intention. Not interested in comparing those 3 at all, moreso what makes them so much better than the rest.

One thing that stands out, obviously other than temperament, is the ability to run ****ING fast.

Dhoni, Hussey and Bevan are/were absolutely lightning,

 

[ganeshran]

If Dhoni maintains the same average and has more such successful finishes at the end of his career, he would be better than Bevan.

 

[Spark]

Dhoni and Hussey are probably the best two runners between the wickets I've ever seen. Take comfortable twos that have no right to even be contemplated.

 

[uvelocity]

Not outs obviously shouldn't be an issue here, because the better batsman in lower-order chases obviously are not out at the end. ****s me to tears when people have a go at Dhoni, Bevan and Hussey's ODI records mentioning not outs.

Well you are comparing apples with apples, so not outs are not a factor. But when you use average without any regard to not outs in comparing any of them to other batsmen in other roles it's pretty absurd. Not aimed at you at all, just in general.

Agree with you about the running between wickets. Manipulating strike is very important, calm and confidence, and inventive strokes/placement.

Also not playing stupid get out shots like a couple which were seen in the match tonight.

 

[Jono]

**** that's a good call. Since about 2007 Dhoni hasn't holed out too often in chases, and the same can definitely be said for Hussey and Bevan.

Klusener too didn't hole out too often from memory, and when he did, SA needed 7-8 rpo (huge back then).

 

[Furball]

Dhoni's 1st innings record is pretty good IIRC. His SR is insane.

 

[Burgey]

The finishers just play the odds so well. Dhoni is amazing at it. Sure he cut it fine tonight, but as has been noted it was 13 off nine with wickets in hand. The point was he played it so he had the option to go coco-banana in the last over. He's a great player in ODIs.

Bevan was the same. Can see their minds ticking over. It's about as cerebral as LO cricket gets.

Hussey does it too, but Dhoni does it better.

 

[Shri]

**** that was seriously not the intention. Not interested in comparing those 3 at all, moreso what makes them so much better than the rest.

One thing that stands out, obviously other than temperament, is the ability to run ****ING fast.

Dhoni, Hussey and Bevan are/were absolutely lightning,

When has any thread ever gone according to intentions in forums?

 

[benchmark00]

Thread title makes me think of this song: ADELE - 'Chasing Pavements' - YouTube

 

[Spark]

ftr

(averages in all chases, 1000 chasing runs mininum)
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

obvious names in the top ten: dhoni, bevan, clarke. kohli and watson new entries. misbah a surprise.

hussey's is actually surprisingly low. even more surprising is that he only has six fifties in chases (and no hundreds but that doesn't really count against him, he has so few anyway) whereas clarke has 3 hundreds, 18 fifties, dhoni has 2/19 and bevan 3/19

(averages in won chases, 1000 chasing runs in wins minimum)
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting

hussey misses the qualification here.

one name actually really stood out for me: sanath's record. surprisingly poor.

 

[Shri]

ftr

(averages in all chases, 1000 chasing runs mininum)
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

obvious names in the top ten: dhoni, bevan. kohli and watson new entries. misbah a surprise.

hussey's is actually surprisingly low. even more surprising is that he only has six fifties in chases (and no hundreds but that doesn't really count against him, he has so few anyway) whereas clarke has 3 hundreds, 18 fifties, dhoni has 2/19 and bevan 3/19

(averages in won chases, 1000 chasing runs in wins minimum)
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

hussey misses the qualification here.

one name actually really stood out for me: sanath's record. surprisingly poor.

Trescothick!

Wag.

Always tonned up when England lost against India.

 

[Spark]

come to think of it, how many really good chasing knocks can we remember from mussey? i remember tons and tons of great finishing knocks but that's slightly different.

 

[Burgey]

Thread needs some Ikki vs HB stats arguments.

 

[Z-Man]

Bevan says Dhoni is one of the best finishers in ODI

What is the secret of your success as a 'finisher' in ODIs?

I think for that you got to know when to take the risk and when to minimize it. You must have the ability to rotate the strike and play the shots as well. You've got to know how to absorb pressure in tight situations.

Indian skipper MS Dhoni has played some great knocks to take India home. How do you rate him in that role?

I think Dhoni always has a lot of scoring options. He knows how to rotate the strike and at the same time is capable of hitting the big shots. He is very strong and can hit the ball really hard. He is very flexible in his approach and can stay calm at pressure situations. This makes him one of the best finishers in ODIs.

You have coached Kings XI Punjab in the IPL and you are now looking after the Orissa side. What's your take on young Indian cricketers?

I have seen lot of talent in India. I feel with better understanding, practice and experience these youngsters will grow up to be good players.

Can you name the three best batsmen and bowlers with whom you have played?

Well if I can give you randomly, among batsmen it should be Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara and Adam Gilchrist and for bowlers, I'll pick Wasim Akram, Saqlain Mushtaq and Shaun Pollock.

Sauce:This

 

[benchmark00]

Thread needs some Ikki vs HB stats arguments.

Would be interesting to see their balls scored off % itbt.

Would bet that Hussey and Bevan would be quite a deal higher than Dhoni for example. Dhoni strikes me as more of an enforcer type finisher in many respects, hits boundaries at will when set.

 

[Furball]

come to think of it, how many really good chasing knocks can we remember from mussey? i remember tons and tons of great finishing knocks but that's slightly different.

Not many. Was suprised to see Hussey's name up with Dhoni and Bevan.

 

[Jono]

Can anyone remind me what Klusener was like between the wickets? Was 12-14 years old when he was at his absolute best and don't remember that aspect of his game.