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Thread: Ajmal claims special concession to 15 degree rule allowed by ICC

  1. #61
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a spambot View Post
    if this was coming from bitterness or whatever they would also be accusing rehman but no one has said a word about him. face it, they're calling him a chucker because he looks an awful lot like one.
    Quite.

    Rehman bowled beautifully and made our top order look like mugs. Classic finger spinner's action and a pleasure to watch him in action.

    Speaking personally I've been banging the drum for Ajmal being a chucker ever since I've seen him.

    Must be noted that no mention of his arm injury was made in the initial ICC report clearing him. From cricinfo.

    Those who say his Doosra has been cleared and that those of us who reserve doubts should just get over it might also be interested to read what David Richardson (the then ICC General Manager) had to say,

    "it is important to emphasise that no bowler is ever 'cleared' as it is impossible to predict how a player might deliver the ball in the future. All bowlers are subject to further reporting if the match officials are of the view that they have concerns about whether a delivery or deliveries conform to the Laws of Cricket when observed with the naked eye."
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    - As featured in The Independent.

    "The committee discussed the issue of illegal bowling actions, and believed that there are a number of bowlers currently employing suspect actions in international cricket, and that the ICC's reporting and testing procedures are not adequately scrutinising these bowlers."
    - Even the ICC's own official press release thinks things must change

  2. #62
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Quite.

    Rehman bowled beautifully and made our top order look like mugs. Classic finger spinner's action and a pleasure to watch him in action.

    Speaking personally I've been banging the drum for Ajmal being a chucker ever since I've seen him.

    Must be noted that no mention of his arm injury was made in the initial ICC report clearing him. From cricinfo.

    Those who say his Doosra has been cleared and that those of us who reserve doubts should just get over it might also be interested to read what David Richardson (the then ICC General Manager) had to say,

    "it is important to emphasise that no bowler is ever 'cleared' as it is impossible to predict how a player might deliver the ball in the future. All bowlers are subject to further reporting if the match officials are of the view that they have concerns about whether a delivery or deliveries conform to the Laws of Cricket when observed with the naked eye."
    Yeah that's true, but do you think he's bowling the doosra differently now to how he was bowling it before he was cleared?

    You can't say "that looks like a chuck", be proven wrong under the eyes of the ICC, and then say "well it still looks like a chuck" and keep sending him back for more testing straight away, then repeat ad infinitum. There has to be something new or different about the concerns to warrant re-testing him. I agree that the teesra - or whatever the **** he was bowling in the first Test if indeed it wasn't the teesra -is a new concern, but you can't just keep sending the same bowler for testing after every match if his action never changes.
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  3. #63
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah that's true, but do you think he's bowling the doosra differently now to how he was bowling it before he was cleared?

    You can't say "that looks like a chuck", be proven wrong under the eyes of the ICC, and then say "well it still looks like a chuck" and keep sending him back for more testing straight away, then repeat ad infinitum. There has to be something new or different about the concerns to warrant re-testing him. I agree that the teesra - or whatever the **** he was bowling in the first Test if indeed it wasn't the teesra -is a new concern, but you can't just keep sending the same bowler for testing after every match if his action never changes.
    The clincher for me is that sometimes it looks far worse than others (as does his stock offie too, IMHO), which must suggest he's putting more work on/elbow into some deliveries.

    Shabbir Ahmed the obvious precedent here. Cleared, came back, looked as filthy as ever, banned.

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    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    He's pulling their chain, and fair play to him for doing so - stupid questions deserve stupid answers
    This ^


  5. #65
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honestbharani View Post
    again, it is obvious it was there to see for people who wanna see. And he has got no special allowance because of it. So why the hell should it be broadcasted around the world? The rule is the same for him as for anyone else. Just because he starts with a bent arm doesn't mean that is some special consideration.. You have always been allowed to bowl with a bent arm in cricket..
    Yes, and if that had been disclosed when he was tested, there would be a lot less discussion and suspicion going on, making it better for everyone surely?
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  6. #66
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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    Maybe...but this time the BBC asked Ajmal directly about his suspected action and he told them the truth. Nobody has asked him before. It's the ICC who did not tell anyone despite knowing about it. In fact, the ICC's response to the whole thing has been quite pathetic. Instead of nipping it in the bud and supporting Ajmal from the start, they have stayed at the sidelines and have allowed the media to run riot.
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Yeah, look, it gives me a pain deep inside my uterus to admit it, but it's Ajmal until such time as we get a working throwing law again.
    Never in a million years would I have thought Brumby to admit this!!!!!!

  7. #67
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post

    Must be noted that no mention of his arm injury was made in the initial ICC report clearing him. From cricinfo.
    Got a link to the actual full report by Professor Elliott? There doesn't seem one in that link.

    Also would like to know how common is this phenomenon in bowlers of bending the arm before straightening, because Starc was also looking a bit suspect in certain deliveries against India the other day, if we are only going by looks.

  8. #68
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    The reason there'd be no mention of his injury is because it's entirely irrelevant to the laws at all and, as I said, requires no special dispensation.

    If you start your arm at 20 degrees and only straighten it back to 8 then you angle of flex is only 12 degrees and you're free to bowl. If you only can straighten it back to 8 then it theoretically gives you some sort of advantage when bowling certain balls but it's not dealt with differently within the laws.

    It's entirely possible that this is why Ajmal appears to be throwing it to the naked eye - we could be seeing a bloke bend his arm to 20 odd degrees and then straighten it back as far as he can, creating the illusion of a chuck despite the fact that he's not straightening his arm the full way. It would have been nice for the ICC to come out and say that Ajmal appears to be throwing more than he is because he doesn't completely straighten his arm, I guess, but it's not something they really needed to do or something that was taken into special consideration.

  9. #69
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post

    Must be noted that no mention of his arm injury was made in the initial ICC report clearing him. From cricinfo.
    I don't see a link to the actual report in that article. Could you link it? It would definitely be shady if it's not at all in the actual report, but I doubt everyone is just making it up right now on the spot.
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  10. #70
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    The more I read this, the more I'm convinced that Ajmal is just trolling the English media.

  11. #71
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Ajmal seriously is the best bloke ever.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

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  12. #72
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    I'm pretty sure Botha can't fully straighten his arm either, but he was still caught out. Hmm..lots of interesting accidents & congenital defects about ().

  13. #73
    Cricketer Of The Year Agent Nationaux's Avatar
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  14. #74
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Players aren't given special dispensations for not being able to straighten their arm all the way; it just allows them to bowl with an initially further bent arm, creating the illusion of more of a throw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    If you start your arm at 20 degrees and only straighten it back to 8 then you angle of flex is only 12 degrees and you're free to bowl. If you only can straighten it back to 8 then it theoretically gives you some sort of advantage when bowling certain balls but it's not dealt with differently within the laws.
    Laws are faulty imo
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    I just love all kinds of balls.

  15. #75
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    Laws are faulty imo
    I don't really know how much of an advantage it'd give you though, if any. I'm just kind of guessing there.

    Is straightening your arm 12 degrees from a 20 degree original flex actually more advantageous than going from 12 to nothing?

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