England's worst ever series performances

[fredfertang]

1989 was the worst by a distance imo - I'm not going to look it up and remind myself of the horrors, well not today anyway, but I'm pretty sure we didn't get the better of even a single session - the moral scoreline was 6-0 - only the rain saved us in the two draws

 

[Cabinet96]

I think one of the things that's been so bad about this series is that we should have won 2 of the 3 tests. Only the most incompetent batting could have lost us the second test and this test and we've seen it.

 

[Shri]

Nah. Not incompetent. Incompetence is when you know how to play spin but throw it away with careless shots. You guys were just outclassed by the spinners this time.

 

[Furball]

Nah. Not incompetent. Incompetence is when you know how to play spin but throw it away with careless shots. You guys were just outclassed by the spinners this time.

Bad defence is equally as careless as slogging one up in the air.

I'd refute that this team can't play spin - all the Asian sides have visited England in the last 2 years, and with the exception of Ajmal (12 wickets @ 29) and Shakib (however many wickets @ 34) every visiting spinner has been belted.

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah. Not incompetent. Incompetence is when you know how to play spin but throw it away with careless shots. You guys were just outclassed by the spinners this time.

You have absolutely no idea what incompetent means. What you're describing is carelessness.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

England only deserved to win 1 of the tests not 2, since the third test hasn't finished.

 

[Cabinet96]

Not saying deserved, but they were definitely in a position where they should have won. Chasing 150 odd and bowling Pakistan out for 99 first innings.

 

[fredfertang]

England only deserved to win 1 of the tests not 2, since the third test hasn't finished.

Agree with Cabinet on this - England could and should have won both Tests so far and they could and should have been in a winning position in this one - but the way the major batsmen have shaped up, particularly Cook, KP, Bell and Morgan, they've deserved every indignity they have had to put up with and sometime on Monday will suffer their third successive defeat

... and that is not intended to belittle Pakistan at all. They're a decent side who've had the strength of character and determination to take advantage of the opportunities that they have opened up

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I agree about the 2nd test and to some degree this test. But Pakistan did not make a mistake in the first and won by nearly an innings. There is no way you guys deserved to win that one.

 

[Cabinet96]

Yeah I agree we were never in a position to win the first test, but we should have chased 150 in the last test. And we should have won this test after bowling you out for 99 first dig, obviously the test is still going on but it's hard to see you not win it from here.

 

[silentstriker]

Bad defence is equally as careless as slogging one up in the air.

I'd refute that this team can't play spin - all the Asian sides have visited England in the last 2 years, and with the exception of Ajmal (12 wickets @ 29) and Shakib (however many wickets @ 34) every visiting spinner has been belted.

Key word.

They are incompetent against spin in the subcontinent. It's in their heads because these pitches don't spin crazy, but whatever the reason, the end effect is that they're incompetent in the subcontinent against spin.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Yeah I agree we were never in a position to win the first test, but we should have chased 150 in the last test. And we should have won this test after bowling you out for 99 first dig, obviously the test is still going on but it's hard to see you not win it from here.

Agree that you should have won the second and be in a dominant position after bowling us out for 99.

Really felt sorry for your bowlers, because no matter how good they bowled the batsmen ****ed it up twice as bad.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Key word.

They are incompetent against spin in the subcontinent. It's in their heads because these pitches don't spin crazy, but whatever the reason, the end effect is that they're incompetent in the subcontinent against spin.

Never to this extent.

Moreover, this is our first serious tour of Asia since Flower & Strauss took over, with all due respect to Bangladesh. What happened over three or more years ago isn't enough evidence to say England are flat out incompetent against spin on the subcontinent. We were supposed to be better than this now.

Yes, we lost our last tours to India & SL (1-0 on both occasions, if memory serves) but we at least put runs on the board. In fact in our test loss to India we actually declared our second innings and it required a record chase for the home side to win.

Whatever our batting malaise is, it's too lazy to say "oh, England can't play spin on the subcontinent." Runs deeper than that.

 

[Flametree]

I love the '89 series. England had won the previous two Ashes series and were probably fairly confident going into the series - after all, who knew Steve Waugh would turn out to be anything more than a bits n pieces allrounder?

Australia used 12 players in the 6 matches, Taylor, Marsh, Boon, Border, Jones, Waugh S, Healy, Hughes, Lawson, Hohns, Alderman, Campbell.

England used...

Atherton
Barnett
Botham
Broad
Capel
Cook
Curtis
de Freitas
Dilley
Emburey
Foster
Fraser
Gatting
Gooch
Gower
Hemmings
Igglesden
Jarvis
Lamb
Malcolm
Moxon
Newport
Pringle
Robinson
Russell
Small
Smith
Stephenson
Tavare

 

[dfx-]

Yeah I agree we were never in a position to win the first test, but we should have chased 150 in the last test. And we should have won this test after bowling you out for 99 first dig, obviously the test is still going on but it's hard to see you not win it from here.

You never know what is a good score until both teams have batted on it. A lead of 42 is alright. Pakistan now being at 180/2 is a problem.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm going to lol if you still manage to beat India at home.

They will be a bit gutted atm so there's a chance.

 

[Jacknife]

Never to this extent.

Moreover, this is our first serious tour of Asia since Flower & Strauss took over, with all due respect to Bangladesh. What happened over three or more years ago isn't enough evidence to say England are flat out incompetent against spin on the subcontinent. We were supposed to be better than this now.

Yes, we lost our last tours to India & SL (1-0 on both occasions, if memory serves) but we at least put runs on the board. In fact in our test loss to India we actually declared our second innings and it required a record chase for the home side to win.

Whatever our batting malaise is, it's too lazy to say "oh, England can't play spin on the subcontinent." Runs deeper than that.

AWTA Like I said before even when we played Murali, which a fair few of these players have done, that didn't look this poor. It's almost as if that one day performance in India has caused some sort of deep rooted mental issues.
The thing is, if they could just manage to over come this, with our bowling attack they wouldn't have to brilliant in the sub continent, they would just have to post decent enough scores to be in with a chance.

 

[Jacknife]

You never know what is a good score until both teams have batted on it. A lead of 42 is alright. Pakistan now being at 180/2 is a problem.

I think more often than not when you bowl a side out for 99, unless it's a absolute minefield or a green top you should be able to win the game.

 

[wpdavid]

Never to this extent.

Moreover, this is our first serious tour of Asia since Flower & Strauss took over, with all due respect to Bangladesh. What happened over three or more years ago isn't enough evidence to say England are flat out incompetent against spin on the subcontinent. We were supposed to be better than this now.

Yes, we lost our last tours to India & SL (1-0 on both occasions, if memory serves) but we at least put runs on the board. In fact in our test loss to India we actually declared our second innings and it required a record chase for the home side to win.

Whatever our batting malaise is, it's too lazy to say "oh, England can't play spin on the subcontinent." Runs deeper than that.

Absolutely. Something has gone horribly wrong with the batting this time, which is why we're asking what the hell is going on. Given that every ball bowled by Ajmal in test cricket has been filmed from about six different angles, why haven't they worked out beforehand what his doosra, teesra and whatever else he's got look like? It's absolutely unforgivable that Bell and others have no clue on that front. It wasn't as if we didn't know that he'd be the main therat before a ball was bowled. And given that our bowling machines can replicate anything you want nowadays, why haven't they spent the last few months experiencing the sort of deliveries that they were always going to face in this series? It's the absolute lack of a game plan that's so galling. hence the accusations of complacency. Not now - that would have disappeared after the first innings of the first test. But there is no evidence whatsoever that the batsmen have been prepared adequately for this series.

 

[NasserFan207]

TBF, in recent times the Pakistan spin attack has been basically dominating every visiting team to the UAE. Its just accurate, intelligent, skilled spin bowling, which we haven't really seen on the subcontinent since Kumble/Murali. England's batting style is also totally wrong for the UAE, since their success has come mainly from being extremely disciplined outside off-stump and forcing a straighter line. Problem is, bowling wicket to wicket is dynamite here.

I also agree that the lack of a gameplan after the first test was shocking. I'd put it down to arrogance really.