***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[Briony]

Surely if you can average 40 at 8 you should be able to do it at 6.

Not sure. For starters, when you bat at #6 you're considered to be a batsman and have that mindset. There's more mental pressure and responsibility on you.

Maybe at #8 you also find that the bowlers are more fatigued and you might get more not outs to boost your average.

My point though was that if someone has been in the game for a long time and his average is 30, that's probably where he sits as a player. And it's not as if he's getting any younger.

 

[Prince EWS]

My point though was that if someone has been in the game for a long time and his average is 30, that's probably where he sits as a player.

Nah that's ridiculous. Players improve over time. It just so happened that his bowling developed a lot earlier than his batting, so he was in the Test side a long time before he was actually a decent batsman. If he couldn't bowl he would've have debuted until the mid 2000s and his average would be closer to 40, so what you're basically saying is the fact that he was a youth bowling prodigee makes him a worse batsman. It's completely illogical. Vettori is much better than a 30 average batsman in Test cricket.

 

[Prince EWS]

I generally agree, but domestic coaches should do the national side, and their own player, a favour if required. The national side is more important than ND, CD etc

The national side is not the responsibility of those teams; they should do what benefits them most.

 

[Howsie]

Well ND did start playing BJ Watling during the HRV cup just to get some keeping in. I highly doubt Bradburn had planned to do that at anytime during the comp.

 

[TT Boy]

Vettori bats above Flynn for Northern Districts. Vettori is no international number 6 and Flynn is somehow expected to now be an international opener that after averaging 28 after 16 tests in the middle order. Strange.

 

[NUFAN]

The positive for Flynn is that his technique isn't as shaky as most batsman from the shaky isle.

If he were to open, what would be need to score to be given a pass mark against SA? I'm thinking if he scores 29 from 71 balls (his average) he would have done a reasonable job.

The NZ top order NEED a gritty, fighting batsman in the top order as the longer he stays at the crease the more benefit will be for the rest of the order. NZ are really missing a trick, Vettori and van Wyk must be batting at 7 and 8 to ensure NZ utilise pretty much their best aspect - fighting middle to lower order runs.

Having Dean Brownlie in the side immediately makes the side look more resolute. I know NZ need the win, but I would just love to see them be able to face 225 overs (half the match overs) across both innings, even if the match ends in a draw.

 

[Hurricane]

The positive for Flynn is that his technique isn't as shaky as most batsman from the shaky isle.

If he were to open, what would be need to score to be given a pass mark against SA? I'm thinking if he scores 29 from 71 balls (his average) he would have done a reasonable job.

The NZ top order NEED a gritty, fighting batsman in the top order as the longer he stays at the crease the more benefit will be for the rest of the order. NZ are really missing a trick, Vettori and van Wyk must be batting at 7 and 8 to ensure NZ utilise pretty much their best aspect - fighting middle to lower order runs.

Having Dean Brownlie in the side immediately makes the side look more resolute. I know NZ need the win, but I would just love to see them be able to face 225 overs (half the match overs) across both innings, even if the match ends in a draw.

The only case for 5 batsman is if you don't have 6 batsman. And with Flynn and Brownlie we have 6. But Brownlie needs a 50 to make his way into the team for some reason. Apparently to show he is over his injury. There may be something to his unfitness as he is hiding down the order for Cantabs in their current match (at least on teh scorecard he is)

 

[straw man]

Interesting short article regarding the Taylor DRS decision.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Not sure. For starters, when you bat at #6 you're considered to be a batsman and have that mindset. There's more mental pressure and responsibility on you.

Maybe at #8 you also find that the bowlers are more fatigued and you might get more not outs to boost your average.

My point though was that if someone has been in the game for a long time and his average is 30, that's probably where he sits as a player. And it's not as if he's getting any younger.

If a batsman doesn't get out how should that reflect poorly on him? and his average hasn't been sitting at 30 as you say, it's been rising sharply for years.

 

[Hurricane]

Interesting short article regarding the Taylor DRS decision.

Makes the Indians seem smart all of a sudden.

btw - what is your team for the next test?

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Makes the Indians seem smart all of a sudden.

No it doesn't.

 

[Flem274*]

Vettori bats above Flynn for Northern Districts. Vettori is no international number 6 and Flynn is somehow expected to now be an international opener that after averaging 28 after 16 tests in the middle order. Strange.

No he doesn't...

Vettori might have done it a couple of times in FC, but usually Flynn would bat above him. He's opened for ND before, and using your logic, James Marshall batting ahead of Vettori makes Marshall the better batsman.

The only case for 5 batsman is if you don't have 6 batsman. And with Flynn and Brownlie we have 6. But Brownlie needs a 50 to make his way into the team for some reason. Apparently to show he is over his injury. There may be something to his unfitness as he is hiding down the order for Cantabs in their current match (at least on teh scorecard he is)

Woah there, it's a bit early to be talking of Flynn as test standard after a few hundreds in the Shield. He deserves an opportunity, but considering we have three and a half test standard batsmen currently available, I wouldn't be putting too much faith in Flynn yet.


The other case for five batsmen, allrounder plus keeper is if you need the four seamers to take wickets. Considering Southee's current crapness, Vettori not being able to take wickets very often and Gillespie's mercurial nature, only Bracewell and Martin can be viewed as consistently quality, and they both only achieved that this season.

The five best batsmen in the country must be picked, and the five best batsmen in the country need to man up and play properly. They've all proven they are capable of doing it, which makes their inconsistency even more frustrating.

McCullum
Flynn
Brownlie/Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie/Williamson
Vettori
van Wyk
Bowlers

Brownlie/Williamson (along with Flynn opening) is a tough one on whoever draws the short straw to bat at three, but leaving either out for Guptill or Nicol or whoever is a waste of a decent batsman.

edit: though all of Williamson, Flynn and Brownlie could play and bat in the middle order if McCullum and Vettori opened

 

[Briony]

If a batsman doesn't get out how should that reflect poorly on him? and his average hasn't been sitting at 30 as you say, it's been rising sharply for years.

After watching him deal horribly with a Kallis short ball in the second dig, I'm not convinced he could have had a high average batting up the order all these years. He seems to have a homespun technique but has he really consistently made big runs against the best bowlers?

I'll answer it myself - he averages below 30 against England, Australia and SA who might be considered the bowling benchmarks. So his average of around 30 over 110 tests might be really where he sits. He's certainly gritty though.

 

[Hurricane]

Woah there, it's a bit early to be talking of Flynn as test standard after a few hundreds in the Shield. He deserves an opportunity, but considering we have three and a half test standard batsmen currently available, I wouldn't be putting too much faith in Flynn yet.

Yep a few leaps of logic there when I was counting six batsman. I won't bore you with my logic. But you make some valid comments/criticisms.

 

[Hurricane]

edit: though all of Williamson, Flynn and Brownlie could play and bat in the middle order if McCullum and Vettori opened

Need to give up on Vettori opening - he doesn't have the bottle for it after that Kallis bouncer. What was your opinion of it?

 

[Flem274*]

After watching him deal horribly with a Kallis short ball in the second dig, I'm not convinced he could have had a high average batting up the order all these years. He seems to have a homespun technique but has he really consistently made big runs against the best bowlers?

I'll answer it myself - he averages below 30 against England, Australia and SA who might be considered the bowling benchmarks. So his average of around 30 over 110 tests might be really where he sits. He's certainly gritty though.

Writing someone off based on one ball is ridiculous.

Ftr, he got hit in the head by Pakistan and scored a ton, at six, in the same series. Sack him.

 

[Flem274*]

Vettori's recent record at six.

His record at six and seven

 

[Howsie]

So, Rob Nicol, worst New Zealand test batsmen since? Poor domestic record, horrible technqiue, I'd love to know why this guy was given a test cap.

 

[Hurricane]

Writing someone off based on one ball is ridiculous.
.

I didn't make any comments when he was cleaned bowled by an offcutter by Philander - this bouncer bothered me - just looked like he couldn't deal with high speed short stuff.

 

[Flem274*]

So, Rob Nicol, worst New Zealand test batsmen since? Poor domestic record, horrible technqiue, I'd love to know why this guy was given a test cap.

Pretty sure older fans could find a mid-90s opener in the same bracket.

Maybe Hartland or Pocock?

Neither had great FC records, but I've never seen them play. Bahnz still lives in 1994, so him to comment.