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***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
This team is starting to look like one of the kit bags that earnt JG Wright his nickname. Taylor's reiterated McCullum stays at 3, and gave a pretty staunch defence of another bowler-heavy lineup for a must-win match.

All that's left is for us to hear Guptill's gone and van Wyk* or Brownlie will open with Flynn, because Brownlie can't be shaken into the playing XI any other conceivable way.

* McCullum made to do a bit of relief work Firebirds-style.
 
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Flametree

International 12th Man
When the selectors went with the four seamer strategy, they assumed :

that Ryder would be in the middle order somewhere;
that Dan would score loads of runs at 6,
that Watling would be keeper, and
that Bracewell and Southee would be viable at numbers 8 & 9.

Things seem to have changed since then. No number of bowlers will help us if we only score 185 & 168 on a fairly benign wicket.

And if Daniel Flynn is expected to open the batting at the Basin, I will kick something... preferably Kim Littlejohn's logarithms...
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
This team is starting to look like one of the kit bags that earnt JG Wright his nickname. Taylor's reiterated McCullum stays at 3, and gave a pretty staunch defence of another bowler-heavy lineup for a must-win match.

All that's left is for us to hear Guptill's gone and van Wyk* or Brownlie will open with Flynn, because Brownlie can't be shaken into the playing XI any other conceivable way.

* McCullum made to do a bit of relief work Firebirds-style, when opposition is half out.
Don't agree with much Taylor has said there.

If Brownlie does not play - in spite of his recent injuries - then we are a silly test nation.

I think they have to try Flynn as an opener Bahnz - we have to do something and yes it is desperate but that is the stage we have reached.
 

Briony

International Debutant
As I said the other day, it seems a luxury for NZ to play five bowlers. Vettori's average of 30 is not good enough for the top six.

Surely you have just as much chance of getting them out with three seamers + Vettori as with the four, especially given that you seem to pick one unlikely one each match. Many have observed over the years that if three pacemen don't work, four rarely will.

You might as well bolster your batting, especially considering what follows Vettori.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
When the selectors went with the four seamer strategy, they assumed :

that Ryder would be in the middle order somewhere;
that Dan would score loads of runs at 6,
that Watling would be keeper, and
that Bracewell and Southee would be viable at numbers 8 & 9.

Things seem to have changed since then. No number of bowlers will help us if we only score 185 & 168 on a fairly benign wicket.

And if Daniel Flynn is expected to open the batting at the Basin, I will kick something... preferably Kim Littlejohn's logarithms...
You don't need more batsmen you need better batsmen. Arnel over Boult was a shocking selection as was Nicol. NZ can improve things with a better tail, in the first 3 innings of the last Test that was the only real difference. Packing the team with batsmen will not work because your replacements are weak, make better selections and if possible get more out of the lower order. Whoever you have up front they just won't be good enough to handle South Africa, so you've just got to try and eke out runs like New Zealand teams of old. It's obviously difficult with Martin at 11.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
Essentially, it's time we tried something drastically different with regards to our top 3.
Indeed.

So here's my radical theory:

Boult
Guptill
McCullum
Taylor
Williamson
Brownlie
Vettori
Van Wyk
Bracewell
Gillespie
Martin

Boult bats like he's batting with Martin at the other end and Guptill bats like he's in a T20. They attack from ball one and try to put the opposition on the back foot.
McCullum and the rest bat normally.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
I don't really get the opposition to McCullum opening. I still think he's more suited to 6 or 7 than anywhere else but I certainly don't think he's any more likely to succeed at three than he is at the top and with the comparative riches in middle order options compared to opening options, it should be a no-brainer to have him open. Frankly it should be one of the most obvious selection decisions the hierarchy has to make.

I know he's had a good start to his time at #3, but he had a good start to his opening career as well. In his second Test there he scored a double century ffs and he backed that up in his very next series against Test class opposition (albeit not in a Test match) with another double century. A couple of fifties at home against South Africa at 3 is not any more impressive than that by a long shot. He was found out as an opener by Australia in Australia but the cold, hard truth of the matter is that he would've been found out at #3 as well, and probably at #6 too, because he doesn't have the technique is handle really high quality bowling in favourable bowling conditions consistently (but that's no real shame as not that many do). That did not happen because he was out of position, and massaging his ego by letting him think it'll all be sweet if he moves one position down to the detriment of the balance of the team is not going to help anyone. It's just absolutely absurd, IMO, to pick someone like Nicol ahead of Flynn, Brownlie or even Sinclair, Franklin etc - or worse yet, sacrifice someone as an opener who has been batting as low as six for his provincial side while Yovich opens the batting - all so McCullum can bat one position lower in a role he's not any more likely to succeed in.
 
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wellAlbidarned

International Coach
As I said the other day, it seems a luxury for NZ to play five bowlers. Vettori's average of 30 is not good enough for the top six.

Surely you have just as much chance of getting them out with three seamers + Vettori as with the four, especially given that you seem to pick one unlikely one each match. Many have observed over the years that if three pacemen don't work, four rarely will.

You might as well bolster your batting, especially considering what follows Vettori.
The bowlers have generally proven their worth in the side far better than the batsmen, going back to three seamers + dan would be such a backwards step. What on earth is the use of having more batsmen if they're all **** anyway?
 

Flem274*

123/5
I don't really get the opposition to McCullum opening. I still think he's more suited to 6 or 7 than anywhere else but I certainly don't think he's any more likely to succeed at three than he is at the top and with the comparative riches in middle order options compared to opening options, it should be a no-brainer to have him open. Frankly it should be one of the most obvious selection decisions the hierarchy has to make.

I know he's had a good start to his time at #3, but he had a good start to his opening career as well. In his second Test there he scored a double century ffs and he backed that up in his very next series against Test class opposition (albeit not in a Test match) with another double century. A couple of fifties at home against South Africa at 3 is not any more impressive than that by a long shot. He was found out as an opener by Australia in Australia but the cold, hard truth of the matter is that he would've been found out at #3 as well, and probably at #6 too, because he doesn't have the technique is handle really high quality bowling in favourable bowling conditions consistently (but that's no real shame as not that many do). That did not happen because he was out of position, and massaging his ego by letting him think it'll all be sweet if he moves one position down to the detriment of the balance of the team is not going to help anyone. It's just absolutely absurd, IMO, to pick someone like Nicol ahead of Flynn, Brownlie or even Sinclair, Franklin etc - or worse yet, sacrifice someone as an opener who has been batting as low as six for his provincial side while Yovich opens the batting - all so McCullum can bat one position lower in a role he's not any more likely to succeed in.
awta
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
The bowlers have generally proven their worth in the side far better than the batsmen, going back to three seamers + dan would be such a backwards step. What on earth is the use of having more batsmen if they're all **** anyway?
I don't think we have four strong seamers either (discounting boult who I think has fallen out of favour for this series).
 
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SeamUp

International Coach
Black Caps squad

* Ross Taylor (c) - Central Stags
* Trent Boult - Northern Knights
* Doug Bracewell - Central Stags
* Dean Brownlie - Canterbury Wizards
* Andrew Ellis - Canterbury Wizards
* Daniel Flynn - Northern Knights
* Mark Gillespie - Wellington Firebirds
* Martin Guptill - Auckland Aces
* Chris Martin - Auckland Aces
* Brendon McCullum - Otago Volts
* Tarun Nethula - Central Stags
* Kruger van Wyk - Central Stags
* Daniel Vettori - Northern Knights

New Zealand Cricket today announced the 14-player squad for the third Test of The National Bank Series against South Africa beginning in Wellington on Friday 23 March.

There have been two changes to the previous squad with Daniel Flynn and Dean Brownlie coming in while Rob Nicol and Brent Arnel have missed out on selection.

National Selection Manager Kim Littlejohn said "Daniel Flynn is having a very successful Plunket Shield with the bat for Northern and is likely to join Martin Guptill at the top of the order. He was part of the team in late 2009 and we are sure he will make the most of his opportunity to again represent his country.

"We are mindful that Dean Brownlie is only just making a return to competitive cricket following injury and will keep a close eye on his progress. Although he has been included in the squad, his selection for the Test will largely depend on how he pulls through the match for Canterbury."

Littlejohn said it was disappointing for Nicol and Arnel, but they had not managed to cement their place in the squad.

Emphasising that both players will benefit from a return to domestic cricket where they can put performances on the board.

"We are sure they will do this and will be very much in contention for selection on the upcoming tour to the West Indies."
 

Mike5181

International Captain
1.Martin Guptill
2.Daniel Flynn
3.Brendon McCullum
4.Ross Taylor (c)
5.Kane Williamson
6.Dean Brownlie
7.Daniel Vettori
8.Kruger Van Wyk+
9.Doug Bracewell
10.Mark Gillespie
11.Chris Martin

So if Brownlie scores runs that'll be the team.
 
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Howsie

International Captain
I like it. Bloody tough ask for Flynn mind you, having played what, five or six games this season. After McCullum though he'd be my first option up top with Guptill.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
Black Caps squad

* Ross Taylor (c) - Central Stags
* Trent Boult - Northern Knights
* Doug Bracewell - Central Stags
* Dean Brownlie - Canterbury Wizards
* Andrew Ellis - Canterbury Wizards
* Daniel Flynn - Northern Knights
* Mark Gillespie - Wellington Firebirds
* Martin Guptill - Auckland Aces
* Chris Martin - Auckland Aces
* Brendon McCullum - Otago Volts
* Tarun Nethula - Central Stags
* Kruger van Wyk - Central Stags
* Daniel Vettori - Northern Knights

New Zealand Cricket today announced the 14-player squad for the third Test of The National Bank Series against South Africa beginning in Wellington on Friday 23 March.

There have been two changes to the previous squad with Daniel Flynn and Dean Brownlie coming in while Rob Nicol and Brent Arnel have missed out on selection.

National Selection Manager Kim Littlejohn said "Daniel Flynn is having a very successful Plunket Shield with the bat for Northern and is likely to join Martin Guptill at the top of the order. He was part of the team in late 2009 and we are sure he will make the most of his opportunity to again represent his country.

"We are mindful that Dean Brownlie is only just making a return to competitive cricket following injury and will keep a close eye on his progress. Although he has been included in the squad, his selection for the Test will largely depend on how he pulls through the match for Canterbury."

Littlejohn said it was disappointing for Nicol and Arnel, but they had not managed to cement their place in the squad.

Emphasising that both players will benefit from a return to domestic cricket where they can put performances on the board.

"We are sure they will do this and will be very much in contention for selection on the upcoming tour to the West Indies."
I don't like that 14 player squad. . . It only has 13 players in it.

I assume Williamson should be in there somewhere?
 
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