***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[Flem274*]

Ellis does rip it up with the ball in the Shield. I'd be curious to see him bowl in the whites. NZC to post highlights of him.

 

[Hurricane]

Nah, stuff that, Ellis isn't a test cricketer. He'd be playing as the 5th bowler and batting at eight, waste of a player really. Pick or bowler or batsmen, not a nuffy all rounder.

McCullum
Taylor
Brownlie
Vettori
Bracewell
Martin

Our test match standard players

On the cusp/can't make up my mind
Gillespie
Williamson
Van Wyk

That leaves 2 spots Don't really see anyone really banging down the door - who is your team? taking into account that Boult will not be picked in the next test.

 

[Flem274*]

Better option than Arnel based on what?

Bits and pieces allrounders offer nothing in test cricket. Invariably they are shown up in both disciplines. We are better off picking the next specialist off the block.

Why is he automatically a bits and pieces player before he even plays a test?

I'm starting to think people judge Ellis on how he looks and not how he performs.

I wouldn't put my house on him, but he is the best allrounder (Franklin sucks at bowling Athlai) in FC cricket and even if he were to perform to his domestic career averages, which are much worse than how he has actually performed in the past two years, he would not be a bits and pieces player.

I don't think he will succeed if picked, but it's a bit harsh to write him off so early based on appearances and I really hope he does well if picked because I love it when supposedly **** players gun it.

 

[Howsie]

Why is he automatically a bits and pieces player before he even plays a test?

I'm starting to think people judge Ellis on how he looks and not how he performs.

Batting eight and playing as the 5th bowler, that automatically makes him a bits and pieces player.

 

[Neil Young]

Why is he automatically a bits and pieces player before he even plays a test?

I'm starting to think people judge Ellis on how he looks and not how he performs.

I wouldn't put my house on him, but he is the best allrounder (Franklin sucks at bowling Athlai) in FC cricket and even if he were to perform to his domestic career averages, which are much worse than how he has actually performed in the past two years, he would not be a bits and pieces player.

I don't think he will succeed if picked, but it's a bit harsh to write him off so early based on appearances and I really hope he does well if picked because I love it when supposedly **** players gun it.

Well it goes without saying that, if selected, I hope Ellis tears it up. I will happily be proven wrong about him.

While I take you pr point about writing him off before he has played, I just feel I have seen plenty of his ilk over the years come up short in test cricket. Not just for NZ, for any number of test teams. Not least England in the nineties.

 

[straw man]

Ellis does rip it up with the ball in the Shield. I'd be curious to see him bowl in the whites. NZC to post highlights of him.

Should just pick KNB imo

 

[Flem274*]

Batting eight and playing as the 5th bowler, that automatically makes him a bits and pieces player.

Isn't that what Vettori used to do until recently?

(face)

 

[Howsie]

Isn't that what Vettori used to do until recently?

(face)

Vettori was never the 5th best bowler though was he?

 

[Flem274*]

Vettori was never the 5th best bowler though was he?

It depends on how effective you think Vettori's test bowling was between the time he was genuinely good and now.

It also depends on how many of our frontliners were injured tbf.

 

[Mike5181]

1.Brendon McCullum
2.Martin Guptill
3.Kane Williamson
4.Ross Taylor (c)
5.Dean Brownlie
6.Daniel Vettori
7.Kruger Van Wyk+
8.Doug Bracewell
9.Mark Gillespie
10.Trent Boult
11.Chris Martin

 

[Flem274*]

I don't think we should be shuffling Williamson up and down again tbh. We should either have left him at three in the first place or now he's in the middle order, keep him there.

 

[straw man]

1.Brendon McCullum
2.Martin Guptill
3.Kane Williamson
4.Ross Taylor (c)
5.Dean Brownlie
6.Daniel Vettori
7.Kruger Van Wyk+
8.Doug Bracewell
9.Mark Gillespie
10.Trent Boult
11.Chris Martin

Finally someone posts a sensible eleven. We just have to accept our numbers 8, 9 & 10 are one spot too high in the batting order atm.

If we really don't want Williamson at 3 then can fiddle with the order of him, Taylor and Brownlie. I'm actually less opposed to putting Taylor at 3 than I used to be tbh.

 

[Howsie]

It depends on how effective you think Vettori's test bowling was between the time he was genuinely good and now.

It also depends on how many of our frontliners were injured tbf.

Huh, find me a match where Daniel Vettori batted at eight and was New Zealand's 5th best option with the ball.

 

[Flem274*]

Huh, find me a match where Daniel Vettori batted at eight and was New Zealand's 5th best option with the ball.

If we open with Franklin and shuffle Dan down to eight next test I'll send you the link.

edit: To answer seriously, any team from 2003 onwards with Chris Cairns at six. After his retirement, I'd place Vettori above only Oram on wicket taking ability. Vettori has feasted on minnows for the past ten years and done stuff all else.

 

[Hurricane]

Huh, find me a match where Daniel Vettori batted at eight and was New Zealand's 5th best option with the ball.

Well Arnel is our 5th bowler in this game and he is number 10. They even said on the radio he was picked to bowl with the old ball which sounds like a holding job.

 

[Flem274*]

You'd think if they wanted an old ball bowler they would have gone looking for someone to get some reverse swing or something.

 

[Neil Young]

1.Brendon McCullum
2.Martin Guptill
3.Kane Williamson
4.Ross Taylor (c)
5.Dean Brownlie
6.Daniel Vettori
7.Kruger Van Wyk+
8.Doug Bracewell
9.Mark Gillespie
10.Trent Boult
11.Chris Martin

Looks good to me. Questions to be answered over time:

Can Vettori cut it at six?
Will Guptill prove his worth against top teams? (I think he will)
Williamson at three too high, too soon?
Brownlie a flash in the pan?

 

[Mike5181]

Ellis does rip it up with the ball in the Shield. I'd be curious to see him bowl in the whites. NZC to post highlights of him.

He has a strike rate of 70 with the ball in first class cricket. What would that number be against Kallis, Amla, Smith etc? He's a wasted spot.

 

[Howsie]

Well Arnel is our 5th bowler in this game and he is number 10. They even said on the radio he was picked to bowl with the old ball which sounds like a holding job.

In theory though Arnel should be the 4th bowler in this game.

 

[Flem274*]

I see where this team balance discussion is going. Get Hiini in there!