***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by SteveNZ

Haha in that case...RT, as they'd say on Twitter.

I didn't get a real good look at the replay of Kallis' delivery but it seemed to stand up rather than cut away a hell of a lot. I've seen Kallis get out that way early in the past, just seemed like a real smart piece of bowling rather than any sort of massive shape.

What was it, something like we have 18 Tests in the next 2 years or something? Can't remember what it was...but whatever it is, we need all the experience we can get and people who can stay on the park. Chris Martin is that, no matter how old.

It's also crucial we build a group of players, especially bowlers, who we can bring in when someone inevitably needs a game off with a niggle. The A team program for this winter has never been more important. We have to select with the next two seasons in mind, which means picking proven players even if they're not in great form two weeks before the squad is announced.

[straw man]

Do we have any A tours scheduled? I haven't heard/seen anything. I guess there will be an Emerging Players tournament some time later this year though.

[straw man]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

That thread I made before his lolindia spell is one of my finest moments.

Yeah I was saying time was up for Martin before that India tour. Or actually, I said if we weren't already fielding a bowling attack that was half near-debutants (McKay, Arnel, Bennett) plus Southee and Jeetan Patel then I would have dropped him.

Since then have not said a word of criticism of Mr Martin

[NasserFan207]

Great start from NZ, but the real test will be batting. The drawback to bowling first is that it always gives your opponent the chance to hit back straight away, and SA will back themselves to do that.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by straw man

Yeah I was saying time was up for Martin before that India tour. Or actually, I said if we weren't already fielding a bowling attack that was half near-debutants (McKay, Arnel, Bennett) plus Southee and Jeetan Patel then I would have dropped him.

Since then have not said a word of criticism of Mr Martin

I was very pessimistic after the test in Zimbabwe where we were saved by a debutant. Happily Marto smoked Hughestralia and faith was restored.

[SteveNZ]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

So yeah, I have a confession.

This season I've started to like Chris Martin.

I mean, he's done everything I've been yelling about. No more defensive outside off stump lines, swing the ball, take wickets against someone other than South Africa. It's amazing how every time I rubbish him he seems to hear me.





That thread I made before his lolindia spell is one of my finest moments.

If it makes you feel any better, I definitely wasn't referring to you..more a certain pessimistic character from a nation famed for its whingers.

Bracewell certainly again showed today he's part of the attack for as long as he stays away from Jesse after hours (and stays behind the front crease) but I don't hold any sort of similar optimism for Southee nor Boult.

Southee was toothless today, never looked like making inroads. He didn't hit the deck particularly hard and didn't swing it after tea when Bracewell/Martin did. I don't know what it is but if someone pushes him, he might be gone. And I don't see Boult as a Test wicket-taker in anything other than friendly conditions or against minnows.

[Hurricane]

I hope Southee gets a bowl tomorrow at the last 3 wickets. Would be good for him to get amongst them. From what I watched Bracewell is out bowling him at the moment. Both of them, ostensibly, are similar in that they are outswing bowlers. Bracewell however has the better off cutter of the two and seams to get more seam movement in general.

I hope the competition amongst the seam bowlers is the making of Tim.

[Zinzan]

FTR ever since I bagged Martin & called for his head his stats have been.....


4 Matches (2 v Aust, 1 v Zim & part v SA) 19 wickets @ 12.84

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

I hope Southee gets a bowl tomorrow at the last 3 wickets. Would be good for him to get amongst them. From what I watched Bracewell is out bowling him at the moment. Both of them, ostensibly, are similar in that they are outswing bowlers. Bracewell however has the better off cutter of the two and seams to get more seam movement in general.

I hope the competition amongst the seam bowlers is the making of Tim.

Southee still lacks a bit of metal for mine especially when the going gets tough. Whether it's not getting into line when batting or his tendency to drift down the leg when bowling, he's just not mentally tough enough yet.

[Days of Grace]

Originally Posted by Zinzan

FTR ever since I bagged Martin & called for his head his stats have been.....


4 Matches (2 v Aust, 1 v Zim & part v SA) 19 wickets @ 12.84

I'll add myself to this list. Definitely wanted him gone for Boult before the Australian series.



Martin a shot of joining the list of bowlers who have taken 100 wickets after their 35th birthday:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=bowling


Should take inspiration from Courtney Walsh: such an underrated gun.

[SteveNZ]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

I hope Southee gets a bowl tomorrow at the last 3 wickets. Would be good for him to get amongst them. From what I watched Bracewell is out bowling him at the moment. Both of them, ostensibly, are similar in that they are outswing bowlers. Bracewell however has the better off cutter of the two and seams to get more seam movement in general.

I hope the competition amongst the seam bowlers is the making of Tim.

Being at the ground today, they were poles apart. Bracewell bowled into the wicket for long periods of time; Southee did it for 2-3 balls max.

Bracewell hits the bat harder, as you said bowls a better off-cutter (ask Michael Clarke), is mentally tougher and can work to a plan much better.

I don't think it would matter a jot if Southee got the last three. I don't think he believes he can get top-class batsmen out anymore in Test cricket. And with an average climbing well over 40, he's probably right.

[Howsie]

Wow, Martin and Bracewell bowl downwind all day and look good, while Southee and Boult bowl into and don't. Amazing. Neither Boult nor Southee were very good today I'll admit that but when do they ever bowl into the wind? Boult doesn't, not for ND anyway. Hardly surprising that he would stuggle today.

Southee's got to fix a few things in his bowling action IMO. That roundarm **** isn't going to help him swing the ball that's for sure, and if he does it'll be from the hand.

[Zinzan]

Just watching the highlights, van Wyk makes McCullum look like Joel Garner. How tall is he anyone?

[SteveNZ]

Your ND lean is to be commended but Southee bowled averagely at both ends. Okay at the pavilion end, with due respect, but not anything particularly threatening. Neither do it at domestic level but what Test bowler does? It stands to reason most will go back to their provinces and get the choice.

End of the day, Martin is the senior bowler and is going to get the wind. Southee's job is likely to be into it, as is Boult. Those guys will get stints downwind in the 2nd dig with Vettori holding up an end - interested to see how they go then.

Tomorrow is massive. Huge. If we can knock them over for anywhere just in excess of 200, the opportunity is there with a flat deck, cold conditions the Proteas won't enjoy being out in and plenty of time to bat. The pitch didn't look all that quick to me so whilst I know they are in the express pace category, Steyn and Morkel should be negated to a point, Philander won't find as much from the seam, Kallis has a back injury and Tahir shouldn't come into it until the weekend.

[Flem274*]

Boult's going to be a gun, but I'm starting to have doubts for the current incarnation of Southee.

Him being dropped and playing a couple of seasons county cricket might not be a bad thing if it comes to it, provided the replacement performs to a better standard than Southee currently is.