Test Cricket Bowling; India v Pak v NZ v WI

[sledger]

Not a king of a large European nation like Ashley Giles is though.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well he is without doubt the best English spinner of the last couple of generations.

To be fair he is the only good spinner since Underwood so not really that big a claim to fame.

 

[Pothas]

Not a king of a large European nation like Ashley Giles is though.

Good point, never the KIng of the jungle either.

 

[Jacknife]

Haha, It's one thing saying Swann will do for England as they have an embarrassment of fast bowling riches anyway who're destroying batting line-ups.

However because he will do right now does not mean he has got to a stage where one can't see what else he can do.

While he certainly is the best spinner in the world and therefore would make a World XI, That's more due to lack of a genuinely very good spinner in the world right now than anything, IMO.

Nobody has ever tried to paint him as a Murali or a Warne, that can take wickets any time any place but it was just a response to someone above saying they they were not convinced and they wanted to see more instances of him dominating the opposition and running through a batting line-up.

 

[Jacknife]

Yeah but India were shot, the groundstaff could have concreted the Oval and India would have still been too busy waving their white flag to have batted well. Playing India away from their cosy slow and low ****e at home doesn't much resemble Test cricket at the moment. It's just a slaughter.

And despite that 9-fer, he averaged 40 for the series.

A bit dishonest coming out with the line they were shot imo especially when we're talking about spin bowling ,which the Indian side play in their sleep. It would be similar to giving the Aussies no credit now in that case because of the way the Indians are playing, which also would be unfair.

 

[Beleg]

Nobody has ever tried to paint him as a Murali or a Warne, that can take wickets any time any place but it was just a response to someone above saying they they were not convinced and they wanted to see more instances of him dominating the opposition and running through a batting line-up.

and i still maintain that. you highlighted an instance but until he does that in a lot of different countries, in varying conditions, i'll withhold my final verdict. i have my doubts but then i have been spoiled by having watched a lot of warne and murali while growing up.

i suppose we'll just have to wait and see if he accomplishes that.

 

[Eds]

and i still maintain that. you highlighted an instance but until he does that in a lot of different countries, in varying conditions, i'll withhold my final verdict. i have my doubts but then i have been spoiled by having watched a lot of warne and murali while growing up.

i suppose we'll just have to wait and see if he accomplishes that.

But you said you were convinced by the likes of Shakib, Strang and Qasim? There's no way in hell they're better spinners than Swann.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Serious question for NZ fans, what other bowlers do you have in the wings or are you stuck with recalls for the likes of Mills and Franklin if you get any injuries. You desperately need to get 12 more months out of Mills to give Bracewell time to learn off an old head.

 

[morgieb]

Serious question for NZ fans, what other bowlers do you have in the wings or are you stuck with recalls for the likes of Mills and Franklin if you get any injuries. You desperately need to get 12 more months out of Mills to give Bracewell time to learn off an old head.

Boult's not in their first XI, and I think Matt Henry might be near a call-up too.

But I'm not a Kiwi, so in reality I have NFI.

 

[Bahnz]

Outside the four who played in the Hobart test the pickings are pretty slim. Neil Wagner and McKay are both quickish left armers who tend to spray it around and who probably aren't up to international cricket. Central has a bunch of promising quicks (Bevan Small, Adam Milne, Ben Wheeler), but they're all at least a couple of years away from being ready for test cricket. And there isn't really anyone else new who's setting the world on fire.

 

[Athlai]

Franklin will never get recalled for his bowling.

 

[Flem274*]

Outside the four who played in the Hobart test the pickings are pretty slim. Neil Wagner and McKay are both quickish left armers who tend to spray it around and who probably aren't up to international cricket. Central has a bunch of promising quicks (Bevan Small, Adam Milne, Ben Wheeler), but they're all at least a couple of years away from being ready for test cricket. And there isn't really anyone else new who's setting the world on fire.

I'm not a Wagner fanatic like most of the media, but he's no McKay when it comes to results.

 

[Hurricane]

Just looking at stats Wagner averages 27 for Otago which is respectable. I think Boult averages 26 or something.

 

[Mike5181]

Serious question for NZ fans, what other bowlers do you have in the wings or are you stuck with recalls for the likes of Mills and Franklin if you get any injuries. You desperately need to get 12 more months out of Mills to give Bracewell time to learn off an old head.

Mills and Franklin aren't close to the test side bowling-wise. At this stage it's really Southee, Boult, Bracewell and Vettori but Neil Wagner is a Left arm fast-medium that's a legit wicket taker. He's eligible reasonably soon and he had something like 50 wickets @ 18 in the 2010/11 domestic season. I wouldn't forget someone like Hamish Bennett as well. He's made of glass but he was impressive in his time with the ODI side. Matt Henry is the up and comer at the moment. He's excelled in first class and List A despite being only 19. He needs a lot more experience and direction though. Guptill was hitting him into the car park the other day. He won't be touched for a couple of years you would think but eventually i could see him turning into a pretty dangerous bowler.

We thought Adam Milne might be a contender due to his pace but he's been predictable with his line and length and as a result hasn't been as effective.

In ODIs we'll still end up playing a few of the old heads like Oram, Mills and NMac but they are still fairly useful in that form of the game.

 

[Bahnz]

I'm not a Wagner fanatic like most of the media, but he's no McKay when it comes to results.

Actually their record in recent seasons has been more similar than you'd think, the main difference being that Wagner has played a lot more.

2008/09
McKay 23 at 34.34
Wagner 21 at 33.33

09/10
Wagner 27 wickets at 37.4
McKay 15 wickets at 40

10/11
Wagner 51 wickets at 18.15
McKay 30 wickets at 20

11/12 so far
Wagner 19 at 26.94
McKay 11 at 36.09

So far 11/12 is the only season that Wagner has produced significantly better figures than McKay, and we're only a few games in at this stage.

 

[Daemon]

A bit dishonest coming out with the line they were shot imo especially when we're talking about spin bowling ,which the Indian side play in their sleep. It would be similar to giving the Aussies no credit now in that case because of the way the Indians are playing, which also would be unfair.

Exactly. My post was a copy of Scaly's post over at another thread discrediting the Aussie bowlers for this performance.

 

[Migara]

When was the last time Pakistans best bowler was a spinner?

Breath of fresh air imo.

Saqlain was their best ODI man for some time

 

[Prince EWS]

Saqlain was their best ODI man for some time

Tests

 

[Xuhaib]

Not happy with current Pakistan bowling strength apart from Ajmal we don't have one bowler who can be classified world class. On the bright side we do have a history of producing quality bowlers so hopefully in a year or two things will look better.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I have high expectations from Junaid...I hope he doesn't disappoint me.. I can't stop talking about him when I am talking about Pakistan cricket and a close friend told me I am trying too hard to find the next Aamer and that is unfair on Junaid because he is not Aamer.