Kallis vs Sobers, Donald vs Steyn, Trott vs Pollock

[uvelocity]

The *only* time Kallis scored a ton and SA beat Australia he was the 3rd highest scorer on his team, and was outscored by Mitchell Johnson.

Kallis has *never* taken more than 3 wickets in an Innings vs Aus.

To be great, you need to beat the greats.

Ponting has played the largest part in a number of victories against SA.

 

[Jono]

SA aren't great though hey.

Anyway I think Ponting is better than Kallis, but if Kallis is being judged on his record against Australia, then what do we judge Ponting on?

 

[benchmark00]

SA aren't great though hey.

Anyway I think Ponting is better than Kallis, but if Kallis is being judged on his record against Australia, then what do we judge Ponting on?

Averages 50 in tests and 52 in ODI's against ICC World XI itbt....

 

[uvelocity]

well you'll notice I lead with "part of"

You can't just cherry pick like I did and summarise an entire career. I'm sure it's been said but for me Ponting is the better game winner and better batsman. Considering Kallis has 2 strings to his bow, they have to be pretty close for me as cricketers though.

 

[Burgey]

SA aren't great though hey.

Anyway I think Ponting is better than Kallis, but if Kallis is being judged on his record against Australia, then what do we judge Ponting on?

He gets judged on his record in India every day here.

Bizarrely it's the only place he seems to have improved in recent years.

Edit: India, not CW.

 

[Athlai]

I just don't rate Ponting as high as a few people here but I never really rated Kallis as being in the same tier as him.

For recent batsman I had traditionally considered it to go:

1 (All-time great): Tendulkar, Lara
2 (Almost all-time great): Ponting, Sanga, Dravid, Waugh
3 (Great but not all-time great): Kallis, Jayawardene, Hayden, MoYo, Laxman, Chanderpaul, Pietersen

But lately I think I've been overall a bit harsh on Kallis and that he might be a better bat than Ponting. Both are very effective run scorers in very different ways and I hated Kallis for the way he played the game. Still hate him. But hate Ponting too. WAC

 

[Jono]

This is so weird as around 12 months ago Kallis was getting sucked off by everyone on CW after this epic performance:

3rd Test: South Africa v India at Cape Town, Jan 2-6, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[Mike5181]

How many career runs do we think Kallis will up end with? There's thirty test matches for South Africa between now and the 2015 world cup. He'll most likely start to selectively choose the games he plays when he starts to get older but he doesn't strike me as a guy who will lose form to the extent of a Ponting.

 

[Jono]

Yeah I said that years ago, around 2007. Said Kallis is the type of player who will not go into form ruts and was a bigger threat to Sachin's careet test runs record than Ponting.

 

[Ruckus]

For recent batsman I had traditionally considered it to go:

1 (All-time great): Tendulkar, Lara
2 (Almost all-time great): Ponting, Sanga, Dravid, Waugh
3 (Great but not all-time great): Kallis, Jayawardene, Hayden, MoYo, Laxman, Chanderpaul, Pietersen

I reckon it should be something like:

Top tier

Class 1: Tendulkar, Lara
Class 2: Ponting
Class 3: Kallis, Sanga, Dravid, Waugh etc.

Second tier

Hayden, MoYo, Laxman, Chanderpaul, Pietersen etc.

Nobody in the second tier should be called an ATG imo, but anyone in the top tier could be called that depending on peoples own point of views. Actual differences between Class 1 and 2, and Class 2 and 3 are small and subject to debate as well. Someone like Waugh could easily be put in Class 2 imo.

 

[smash84]

Sanga should be in the Ponting class I think

 

[Ruckus]

Sanga should be in the Ponting class I think

Na I reckon the main thing with Sanga is he just doesn't have the same all-round record as someone like Ponting.

 

[smash84]

why do you say that?

The only place where Sanga probably has not done that well is SA/Eng I think

 

[Mike5181]

I'd throw the names Inzamam-ul-Haq, Andy Flower and Virender Sehwag in there somewhere.

 

[Ruckus]

why do you say that?

The only place where Sanga probably has not done that well is SA/Eng I think

Averages around 35 or less in India, SA, Eng and WI. Ponting only averages less than 40 in India (and Zimbabwe if you want to include that!).

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Bloody batsmen. All over rated.

Don't understand how people can rate Kallis less than Dravid personally.

 

[Burgey]

I reckon it should be something like:

Top tier

Class 1: Tendulkar, Lara
Class 2: Ponting
Class 3: Kallis, Sanga, Dravid, Waugh etc.

Second tier

Hayden, MoYo, Laxman, Chanderpaul, Pietersen etc.

Nobody in the second tier should be called an ATG imo, but anyone in the top tier could be called that depending on peoples own point of views. Actual differences between Class 1 and 2, and Class 2 and 3 are small and subject to debate as well. Someone like Waugh could easily be put in Class 2 imo.

I think you're pitching your top tier one name too low.

Edit: behold the Bradman action figure*


*with added AK47

 

[Ruckus]

I think you're pitching your top tier one name too low.

Edit: behold the Bradman action figure*


*with added AK47

Good god as funny as that is, I was more distracted by this:

Hideous

 

[Burgey]

That's awful

 

[smash84]

^

awta. That was the more glaring image on the page