Spinners

[Tom Halsey]

Yeah, but Murali plays way over half of his tests in the subcontinent. He has played over half in Sri Lanka, plus the away tests against Pakistan and India

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Away, Murali averages 27.81, compared to Warne's 25.33. In other words Murali is crap when it does not spin

1/ For Murali it always spins.

2/ So what you're saying is that Warne (52.25 in India - not his batting avge, 33.5 in Pak/SL/Ind) is crap where it does spin?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yeah, but Murali plays way over half of his tests in the subcontinent. He has played over half in Sri Lanka, plus the away tests against Pakistan and India

Most players (bar Ganga) tend to play a larger percentage of Tests at home. Besides, with 13 5W hauls in 36 games (1 every 2.76 games) and 3 10W hauls while bowling away, I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[Tom Halsey]

That is because he bowls almost half their overs. They have no-one else any good, so they chuck the ball to him. If he is bowling almost half the overs, hes bound to take tons of 5-fers

 

[Rik]

That is because he bowls almost half their overs. They have no-one else any good, so they chuck the ball to him. If he is bowling almost half the overs, hes bound to take tons of 5-fers

And yet he has to bowl those overs, he has to take those wickets. Believe me you could give the ball to Nasser Hussain and ask him to bowl as much as Murali and I doubt he would even take 2, let alone 5. The fact that Murali bowls so many overs only increases his standing as the best spinner in the world, since he rarely gets injured and most of the time he's the only attacking force Sri Lanka have.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Possibly because Nasser Hussain can't bowl? I am not saying Murali is bad, he is the second best spinner in the world, but he is not an all time legend, like Jim Laker, or Bill O'Reilly, etc.

 

[Rik]

Possibly because Nasser Hussain can't bowl? I am not saying Murali is bad, he is the second best spinner in the world, but he is not an all time legend, like Jim Laker, or Bill O'Reilly, etc.

Everything points to him not only being the best spinner in the world, not the 2nd best, but also that he's an all-time legend. Because quite simply, if you take the most Test wickets in the history of cricket (which I don't doubt one moment he will), how can you not be a legend? He's an amazing player and should be recognised as such.

 

[Tom Halsey]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I just think that Warne is a better all-round bowler than Murali.

 

[Anil]

The best spinner is Murali.

Warne is second.

 

[Richard]

I object very strongly to the constantly returned-to notion that Sri Lanka have no other decent bowlers apart from Murali.
They have easily the best seamer in World cricket on his day and they also have plenty of spinners who can come in and do the job in home games (or away games in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and West Indies).
And PLEASE - why can't we just say that there's negligable difference between Warne and Murali? Why does one have to be better? Both will in all likelihood end-up with over 600 Test-wickets (if Warne hadn't been injured so much he'd probably be on-track for about 800, and I won't be surprised if Murali gets 700); how can anyone say, or feel the need to say, that one is better than the other?
Both spin the ball a hell of a lot, so achieve dangerous turn in all conditions; both have achieved a standard of accuracy almost unparallelled for wristspinners, and both have about 10 variations of delivery, most superbly disguised and all of which turn dangerously.
There may have been some who were a fraction more accurate and some who were more dangerous in their day (on uncovered wickets), ie Grimmett, O'Reilly, Benaud, and there may have been some good fingerspinners (Rhodes, Verity, Gibbs, Tayfield, Gleeson, Iverson, Laker, Lock, Underwood possibly) but surely no-one has developed an armoury quite like that of these two.
Literally, the only difference between them is the direction of their stock-ball's turn. And naturally Murali has a leg-break in his armoury and Warne's googly isn't a hell of a lot different to Murali's stockie.

 

[marc71178]

I object very strongly to the constantly returned-to notion that Sri Lanka have no other decent bowlers apart from Murali.
They have easily the best seamer in World cricket on his day

You what?

Vaas is a very inconsistent player.

On his day he's in the top 7 or 8 seamers in the World, but nowhere near the class of Pollock, McGrath, Gillespie, ...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

You what?

Vaas is a very inconsistent player.

Hence he said "the best seamer in World cricket on his day".

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hence he said "the best seamer in World cricket on his day".

Which suggests his day is better than Lee, Pollock, McGrath, Gillespie, Harmison, Anderson, Ntini, Zaheer etc. You get the idea.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I maintain that Franklyn Rose, on his day, was the best bowler in the world.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk - He must have been not only stoned, but probably under the influence of a lot more...
I maintain that Franklyn Rose, on his day, was the best bowler in the world.

You really don't help yourself, do you?

 

[Rik]

Which suggests his day is better than Lee, Pollock, McGrath, Gillespie, Harmison, Anderson, Ntini, Zaheer etc. You get the idea.

Take out Pollock, McGrath and Gillespie and I can't really see a problem with that statement.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Add Shoaib. I'd take the above on a top day over Vaas... although Vaas has more top days than most, and would take Vaas in my side over them, too.

 

[Rik]

Add Shoaib. I'd take the above on a top day over Vaas... although Vaas has more top days than most, and would take Vaas in my side over them, too.

That's why I'd take Vaas over any of them, since he has more good days than they do, which means he's more effective and a better bowler. He's a bit of a Hoggard though, needs swing.

 

[Neil Pickup]

That's why I'd take Vaas over any of them, since he has more good days than they do, which means he's more effective and a better bowler. He's a bit of a Hoggard though, needs swing.

That wasn't the issue :duh:

It was whose peak was the highest.

 

[Rik]

That wasn't the issue :duh:

It was whose peak was the highest.

I find it hard to believe Anderson, Harmison, Zaheer or Ntini have had a higher peak than Vaas. Also remembering this is the guy who's the only bowler to take 8 wickets in a ODI, and has taken 7 in a Test twice and 6 in a Test Twice. I believe the best return between Lee, Ntini, Harmison and Zaheer is Ntini's 6-66