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Best batsman from associate teams

ganeshran

International Debutant
Who is the best batsman that Associate teams have produced?

Steve Tikolo
Thomas Odoyo
Ten Doeschate
Gavin Hamilton
Kevin O Brian
Ashish Bagai

or others
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Who is the best batsman that Associate teams have produced?
Produced is key here. I don't think the Associates can claim to have produced Gavin Hamilton or Ryan ten Doeschate.

Tikolo, O'Brien, Morgan, Joyce - maybe. Though with the last 3, they've certainly had a fair bit of help from the County circuit too.
 

morgieb

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Produced is key here. I don't think the Associates can claim to have produced Gavin Hamilton or Ryan ten Doeschate.

Tikolo, O'Brien, Morgan, Joyce - maybe. Though with the last 3, they've certainly had a fair bit of help from the County circuit too.
I thought he was genuinely Scottish?
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I thought he was genuinely Scottish?
He is, but I'd argue that he learned his trade at Yorkshire.

If Hamilton counts, then I would definitely put forward Brian Hardie. Mind you, Brian Hardie actually played for Scotland well before he played for Essex - 'touring' England with the Scotland team in 1970, 71 and 72. Including 2 centuries against a touring MCC side in Aberdeen [when the MCC came to Scotland, of course!]
 

Jacknife

International Captain
He is, but I'd argue that he learned his trade at Yorkshire.

If Hamilton counts, then I would definitely put forward Brian Hardie. Mind you, Brian Hardie actually played for Scotland well before he played for Essex - 'touring' England with the Scotland team in 1970, 71 and 72. Including 2 centuries against a touring MCC side in Aberdeen [when the MCC came to Scotland, of course!]
Yes Hamilton defo was a product of Yorkshire played there from his late teens.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Zimbabwe were an associate when Hick came through. If they'd been a test nation he might never have taken the Queen's shilling.

134 (IIRC) first class tons makes a strong case.
 

hang on

State Vice-Captain
any older machans on here who could throw some light on the great mahadevan sadasivam (sp?)? the one who was highly praised by sobers in the 60s?
 

ganeshran

International Debutant
Just read about Mahadevan Sathasivam's exploits. Turns out he was rated quite highly by Sir Gary Sobers himself.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Produced is key here. I don't think the Associates can claim to have produced Gavin Hamilton or Ryan ten Doeschate.

Tikolo, O'Brien, Morgan, Joyce - maybe. Though with the last 3, they've certainly had a fair bit of help from the County circuit too.
I think that's a distinction that doesn't need to be made. For a batsman from an associate nation to be considered as a good one, people wait to see him perform well in the more established competitions. At which point, it can be claimed that the higher class of competition and better system had a hand in his development, which then means he wasn't an exclusive product of his home nation. It would be pretty rare for a batsman to be considered good if his performances in the associate circuit are all he has by way of claim.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Craig Williams may not be the best in the world but is a very good batsman and quality in the shorter format.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think that's a distinction that doesn't need to be made. For a batsman from an associate nation to be considered as a good one, people wait to see him perform well in the more established competitions. At which point, it can be claimed that the higher class of competition and better system had a hand in his development, which then means he wasn't an exclusive product of his home nation. It would be pretty rare for a batsman to be considered good if his performances in the associate circuit are all he has by way of claim.
Yes and no. ten Doeschate was brought up in South Africa, learned his trade in South Africa and is a South African with Dutch heritage that plays for the Netherlands. He's clearly not a 'product' of Holland. With your argument, I think it probably becomes necessary to drill into the earlier careers of some of the Irish players. I certainly think a couple of them were picked up by counties because of their exploits for Ireland, whilst some of them were picked up by counties before they performed for Ireland; though I admit it's a bit of a grey area with them as to who 'produced' them.
 

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