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Gregory and McDonald, aka Fire and Brimstone

Burgey

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Really enjoyed that read, thanks mate.

Shame there's so little on McDonald. I'd read Bradman's thoughts on him previously. I'd wondered if there was any suggestion his action in any way influenced Larwood, so we might have some idea as to what he looked like as he bowled, but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion he did.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
First opening pair of quicks in test cricket weren't they? I remember reading somewhere that they caused a fair bit of upset over here due to their bowling being rather more intimidating than what had gone before. Perhaps an inspiration for Jardine 10 years later?
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
First opening pair of quicks in test cricket weren't they? I remember reading somewhere that they caused a fair bit of upset over here due to their bowling being rather more intimidating than what had gone before. Perhaps an inspiration for Jardine 10 years later?
I've read in a few places that they were the first pair of quicks but when I started to check that seems to be an oversimplification

Pre-war it was usual to open with a fast man and a slow or medium pacer. I looked at Tibby Cotter, who by all accounts was very sharp, and in 1911/12 and 1912 he tended to open with Bill Whitty who is described as fast medium, and his predecessor as the Aussie tearaway, Ernie Jones, the bloke who legend has it bowled one through WG's beard, sometimes opened with Bert Hopkins who was described as fast medium as well

As for England a lot turns on what you classify Syd Barnes as but Frank Foster and Johnny Douglas or Barnes opened up in Australia in 1911/12, although none were express pace - interestingly Tom Richardson would generally open with Bobby Peel, who was orthodox slow left arm, and did so throughout the 1894/95 series despite Bill Lockwood (genuinely quick by all accounts) and William Brockwell (fast medium) also being in the side.

That said on debut in the final Test in 1893 Richardson opened the bowling with Arthur Mold, also said to be genuinely fast but that was clearly not an experiment England wanted to persist with - I'm not so sad as to have thoroughly checked but I think that was the first instance of two all out quicks opening the bowling in a Test

I think a large part of the problem with Gregory and McDonald was the age old one of England having no one fast themselves and therefore being unable to retaliate.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
How about Charlie Turner and J.J. Ferris for a really ancient fast bowling pair? They wrecked havoc against England in what was Ferris' debut match.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
How about Charlie Turner and J.J. Ferris for a really ancient fast bowling pair? They wrecked havoc against England in what was Ferris' debut match.
Turner was medium fast at best and Ferris was a bit slower than that. The Spofforth/Palmer combination which preceded them was quicker I'd say, though again neither of them were genuinely fast.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
As for England a lot turns on what you classify Syd Barnes as but Frank Foster and Johnny Douglas or Barnes opened up in Australia in 1911/12, although none were express pace - interestingly Tom Richardson would generally open with Bobby Peel, who was orthodox slow left arm, and did so throughout the 1894/95 series despite Bill Lockwood (genuinely quick by all accounts) and William Brockwell (fast medium) also being in the side
I'd always assumed that Richardson and Lockwood must have opened together, really interesting to see that they didn't.

Makes sense I suppose thinking about it - I'd never heard of them mentioned in discussions about great pre-war combinations, when surely they would have been had they bowled together.
 
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Days of Grace

International Captain
Fredfertang, if would be legendary if you could one day do a feature article on Tom Richardson. Seems like such an interesting character who declined as fast as he rose to greatness. I'm surprised noone's written a biography on him.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fredfertang, if would be legendary if you could one day do a feature article on Tom Richardson. Seems like such an interesting character who declined as fast as he rose to greatness. I'm surprised noone's written a biography on him.
Good idea, he is an interesting character, I shall get on with that - I've never had a request before:)

As to a biography I believe there is one due next year.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Ha ha, do we know who is writing it?

Honest Tom is surely one of cricket's most fascinating and tragic characters. I hope the book does him justice.
 

shrikanthk

Cricket Spectator
I'd always assumed that Richardson and Lockwood must have opened together, really interesting to see that they didn't.

Makes sense I suppose thinking about it - I'd never heard of them mentioned in discussions about great pre-war combinations, when surely they would have been had they bowled together.
They did bowl a lot together for Surrey.
Richardson and Lockwood no doubt the first of all the great fast bowling pairs in the history of the game.

But not sure if they bowled in tandem for England. Interestingly, Richardson and Lockwood were seldom at their best at the same time.

During Richardson's heyday in the mid 1890s, Lockwood was either injured or out of form more often than not. Lockwood also has a forgettable record in Australia.

Lockwood's best years for England were in the early 1900s. However, by that time, Richardson was almost a spent force and out of the England side.
 
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