Fleming's ridiculous comments

[Salamuddin]

Stephen Fleming has criticised the tri-nations in schedule in India.

1) It's not like 8.30 am and 9 am starts are anything new in India. They've been going on since the '87 world cup.
NZ have experienced batting first in these conditions on their previous trip. So they really should have known what to expect.
2) It's all a question of adaptation Fleming. This is exactly what you told the Indians when they repeatedly flopped batting first on the questionable tracks the Kiwis dished out last summer.
I agreed with you -- India failed to adapt.
However, same thing applies here. You adapt.
NZ made 258 in Pune. If their top order had shown more application, they probably would have won that game.
Don't go blaming the schedule or the pitch for your top order's inadequacies.
3) NZ did have an advanatge batting first which Fleming conveniently overlooked. Chasing on Indian pitches is never easy because the ball invariably holds up in the afternoon session forcing batsmen to make the play. Furthermore, picthes also start turning more and this was indeed the case in Pune.
4) The claim that the schedule is biased in India's favour is laughable -- India play all their games at night. WEll anyone will tell you that chasing under lights is an extremely difficult proposition (particularly on the grounds that India are to play on). And there is no gurantaee India will always bat first as occurred in Mumbai the other night.
There are disadvantages to playing both day and d/n games, Mr Fleming.
It's not as if your side is being singled out.

Perhaps you are embarrassed at the performance of your batsmen in front of a second string Aussie attack and looking for a cheap excuse....

 

[Top_Cat]

I usually respect what Steve Fleming has to say but on this occasions, you're right James; he's whining. I wonder if his criticism would have been as loud if NZ had bowled first in both their matches and picked up early wickets, leading to wins? I doubt it. Besides, in the last game, after Williams ripped out the first few batsmen, it wasn't great bowling which produced wickets. Fleming himself was guilty of skying a pull shot to the deep at an absolutely CRUCIAL moment. He was lucky Oram batted so well (and he did bat VERY well; awesome play from a bowling allrounder) and then McCallum finished off the job (another who played out of his skin). Fleming and Harris, very experienced players both, went to rushes of blood to the head and were shown up by the newer brigade.

Maybe, like all things psychological, Fleming's comments are a reflection of his self-hatred for getting out when he did.

 

[age_master]

while the series may be slightly weighted to the indians, what do you excpect in India

but seriously, im pretty sure they are not fixing the tosses against the kiwi's, if they are, i wanna know how to. NZ have just been on the wrong end of the toss a couple of times

 

[Tim]

I agree, I think Fleming is just lashing out in sheer frustration of his own batting form.
Sure the ball has been moving around, but NZ won the toss on one of those occassions and decided to commit suicide.
NZ can't really comment about pitches until we show some improvement on our own pitches.

But the fact is true that playing at 8.30 am in the morning is ridiculous & does give the bowling team a distinct advantage for about 10 overs.

 

[Top_Cat]

Aren't they only starting that early because it gets dark quickly in those parts of the country?

 

[Tim]

Yeah that is true..but whoever wins the toss, well it'll be an immediate advantage..the toss should not be as crucial as it has been in NZ & now in India.

Im trying not to defend the NZ team because some of their shots have look like they had just come out of 6th Grade but I have no doubt that most international sides would struggle to keep all their wickets in tact in those conditions for 10 overs.

Lights are very costly, but perhaps India need to look at them for these grounds or forget about playing at this time of the year.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah that is true..but whoever wins the toss, well it'll be an immediate advantage..the toss should not be as crucial as it has been in NZ & now in India.

Well yeah, particularly considering that after the first 15 overs, conditions are absolutely ideal for batting.

Im trying not to defend the NZ team because some of their shots have look like they had just come out of 6th Grade but I have no doubt that most international sides would struggle to keep all their wickets in tact in those conditions for 10 overs.

Having seen the amount of movement there was early both matches, I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Tim]

The other thing is though, the matches in NZ..the pitches had movement all day so it was a matter of who could survive the conditions the best. But the day games in India have shown that the pitches only have nightmares in it for the first 10-15 overs of the day & then its as flat as a pancake...so thats really a big advantage.

And don't try & tell me that Australia had the same conditions that NZ had in that 2nd innings the other day. Martyn & Clarke played on, Ponting missed a straight one, Hayden got a good ball from Tuffey & Gilchrist just skied one.

So I think Fleming has raised some valid points, but he needs to becareful because alot of people will be quick to remind him about the NZ pitches earlier in the year.

 

[virajqw]

surprised that fleming is putting the enire blame on the pitches and not mentioning nething abt his side dropping catches at crucial moments which lead to their defeat.
Also according to the bcci the schedule was fixed after consultantions with the nz board.

 

[Craig]

Aren't they only starting that early because it gets dark quickly in those parts of the country?

So the idea of introducing time-zones as mentioned by a couple of Indian commentators since India is one of the largest countries in the world, have merit?

 

[Tim]

Well no doubt the NZ board had to approve it, but I wonder if the players got to see it?
I suppose Martin Snedden saw it & didn't even think twice about the possibility that the ball would move as much as it has at 8.30 in the morning.

I hope Fleming is coming from the point of view that it affects anyone who loses the toss rather than just the NZ team.

Mate its not the pitch that is to blame though..the pitch is fine, its the start time which has everyone talking. If the game started at 10 am there would be little advantage but there is nothing anybody can do because these grounds don't have lights.

 

[Tim]

I realised previously in this thread that i've said the pitches in India are a nightmare, what I really mean are the conditions.

I think the pitch at Pune was great for ODI cricket & had it started at 9.30 or 10 maybe it would have been equal for both teams.

 

[Kimbo]

surprised that fleming is putting the enire blame on the pitches and not mentioning nething abt his side dropping catches at crucial moments which lead to their defeat.

I haven't heard his comments, but I am sure he would have addressed it at some point. He would have acknowledged the teams shortfalls at some stage, that I am fairly confident of.

 

[V Reddy]

BTW, the matches start at 9 AM and not 8.30 AM. It gets around 5.30 PM as it winter in India. The matches are not organised in summer b'coz the temperatures go up to 45 degrees , which is not suitable for cricket.

 

[Tim]

The next game is scheduled for 8.30 am between NZ & Aus.
Well NZ would be far happier now than playing in 45 degree temps so there's not much room for change.
I think NZ should just get on with it & try and get back into this series quickly.

 

[JohnnyA]

Reminds me of the old 60 over tournament final at lords we used to have (The Nat West Trophy was it?). Win the toss, Bowl, get the opposition 6 down for 40, game over.

Fleming probably has a point, but the fact is, that if he had've won the toss and bowled, he whouldn't be whinning! We had plenty of games like this in the World Cup I seem to remember.

 

[marc71178]

So the idea of introducing time-zones as mentioned by a couple of Indian commentators since India is one of the largest countries in the world, have merit?

How would that make a difference though?

They have to start at a certain time to get the overs in before it get's dark, so it'll still be the same conditions if the clock reads 12 noon or 5am!

 

[Craig]

Genrally if you start at 12.00pm the sun would of been on the pitch and it wont be the 'fresh' looking wicket which assists the seamers.

 

[Kimbo]

The problem is the length of the days at this time of year. You can't change that.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Genrally if you start at 12.00pm the sun would of been on the pitch and it wont be the 'fresh' looking wicket which assists the seamers.

If you start at 12 in the present time zone it will be dark halfway through the second innings.

If you put the clocks back two hours, it will be the same conditions at the new 1200 as it was at the old 1000.

Point completely invalid.