four_or_six
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm not sure you can rank Jones clearly ahead of him, just because he played so few matches. His physical fragility had a much worse impact than Harmison's mental fragility.
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Steve Harmison
- Thread starter sledger
- Start date
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
It's all speculative, but in his last few appearances for England, Jones began to look seriously good. I'd be very interested to see how he would have gone if he managed to avoid all those serious injuries.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Jones' physical fragility caused him to miss games, Harmison's mental fragility saw him send deliveries to 2nd slip and lost us games.
Whilst I understand some of the negativity, I still find it amazing that there are so few positive comments towards the guy.
Hell, one person went so far as to say he wasn't cut out for international cricket. My god, he took 226 Test wickets. Absolutely crazy talk.
Yes, he wasn't mentally up to it away from home. Calling him a ***** is also weak, incidentally. He's a devoted family man who got home sick. People in all walks of life have phobias/fears/issues etc and I would suggest that goes for this forum too.
He also had an action that was technically less than sound and couldn't be repeatable all the time. So he had bad days. He also won Test matches, and series that I suggest most of these posters gained a significant amount of pleasure from.
I'm a fan, even if a lot of people are not.
Hell, one person went so far as to say he wasn't cut out for international cricket. My god, he took 226 Test wickets. Absolutely crazy talk.
Yes, he wasn't mentally up to it away from home. Calling him a ***** is also weak, incidentally. He's a devoted family man who got home sick. People in all walks of life have phobias/fears/issues etc and I would suggest that goes for this forum too.
He also had an action that was technically less than sound and couldn't be repeatable all the time. So he had bad days. He also won Test matches, and series that I suggest most of these posters gained a significant amount of pleasure from.
I'm a fan, even if a lot of people are not.
NasserFan207
International Vice-Captain
This is an excellent point, and is why I think Johnson of today reminds me of him. Harmison was a bowler with all the right ingredients but clueless on 'how' to bowl. He just ran up, bowled fast and short and hoped. Occasionally he got into a rhythm, but only very occasionally.
I don't like saying whether someone's 'soft' unless I know them personally. Could be any number of reasons why Harmison didn't like travelling.
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Viscount Tom
International Debutant
He got homesick, which was fair enough butt hat doesn't explain his poor performances abroad for the most part.
I think England were reluctant to take him to SA without Flintofff playing any more because he tended to look after him.
I think England were reluctant to take him to SA without Flintofff playing any more because he tended to look after him.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Nobody is questioning his mental state with regards to his integrity as an individual though. If they were then I'd agree with you, as there's no place for that. But with regards to his performances, I think to some extent it's fair comment.
That's fair. I would regard calling someone a '*****' as somewhere you shouldn't go..but I understand the criticism of his performances overseas. People expect those who play for their country to serve them well in any environment and if a player makes themselves available then they should be able to do so.
I guess it's just the negativity towards him as a bowler and the attempts to rubbish his achievements completely by focusing on his homesickness and his poorer moments. Sure, point that out as a reason he can't be considered an all-time great but also balance it with the fact he won Test matches, was absolutely devastating on his day, gave his country a lot to savour when he was on and took over 200 wickets.
I find similar issues with how Chris Martin is being viewed in our country at present, although for differing reasons. I can see why people don't want him picked now, and I agree he's nowhere near Hadlee, Cairns, Bond etc but he is still well worthy of praise for his career.
Uppercut
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This is my overwhelming memory of Harmy. Too much making batsmen look mildly uncomfortable, not enough in the wickets column. And that's when he was bowling well.
His performances overseas were dreadful, he quite clearly didn't want to be there most of the time. I think the buck has to stop with the English selectors for continuing to pick someone with such an unprofessional attitude for so long. No player should ever rock up to the '08 tour of New Zealand in the shape Harmison did and still earn a recall in time for the next tour. Certainly not when they're as mediocre at bowling as Harmison was at that stage in his career.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
His retirement from ODIs in the middle of an Ashes tour was soft. It smacked of a man who just didn't want to be away from home representing his country in the sport he plays for a living. Cricket teams can't afford to carry players with that mindset, and it's not like Harmison was particularly good in overseas Tests anyway.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
What's your view on Marcus Trescothick? I suspect Harmison had a similar condition to him in many ways, just not as extreme.
flibbertyjibber
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Harmlessone was persevered with for too long. Threatened to be very good for a short space of time but that was too short a period for him to be regarded as anything but a big bloody frustration.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
It's a fair point. With Tres tho, until his condition became public knowledge, it was never immediately apparent from his performances that he didn't really want to be there.
Lillian Thomson
Hall of Fame Member
He wasn’t as good as Kapil Dev. 