Naturalised after 16 years old

[Hurricane]

Was talking to a friend today who was describing the rules in basketball where you can only have one import in your roster of 12 players to represent your country. An import (my word not theirs) is a player who has become a naturalised citizen after 16 years old.

I am in favour of such a move for cricket although perhaps the limit should be set at 2 players. My biggest reason for this is the Canadian Cricket team. When I lived in Canada I was aware of two born and bred Canadians in the playing XI. I hope things have changed somewhat now.

NZ has Dean Brownlie I guess and could pick up Wagner in the future. I would feel a bit weird if we had 3 or 4 such players in the team.

How about you? Or do you just want to have the best team possible?

 

[Maurice]

Dean Brownlie wouldn't count though would he? because his dad was born in Christchurch IIRC.

 

[Furball]

Legally, what is the difference between someone who becomes a naturalised citizen and someone who is a citizen as a result of being born and brought up somewhere?

 

[Hurricane]

Legally, what is the difference between someone who becomes a naturalised citizen and someone who is a citizen as a result of being born and brought up somewhere?

You can't be president of the US unless you are born there. I am trying to research other examples. Probably not much legal difference I would imagine.

another example...

Canada’s citizenship law was amended to allow persons adopted by Canadian
citizens to apply for citizenship directly, without first having to apply for
permanent residence (citizenship adoption process). To access this process,
the Canadian adoptive parent must be born in Canada or have naturalized
before the adoption took place (became a citizen after arriving in Canada as
a permanent resident).
In other words, if you were adopted by a Canadian citizen who was born
outside Canada to a Canadian parent, then you cannot apply through the
citizenship adoption process. You also cannot apply through the citizenship
adoption process if your parent is a Canadian citizen because he or she
became a citizen through the citizenship adoption process.

 

[sledger]

Legally, what is the difference between someone who becomes a naturalised citizen and someone who is a citizen as a result of being born and brought up somewhere?

Enforcing any sort of quota on "import" players (which is a ridiculous term to apply to any living person tbh) in the vein suggested would be a legal nightmare, human rights activists would have a field day on it. If someone is legally a citizen of a certain country, they surely must be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else living in the same society, to do otherwise on the basis of them having a different ethnic background would surely have to be consrued as being overtly racist, irrespective of all other considerations.

 

[Furball]

Enforcing any sort of quota on "import" players (which is a ridiculous term to apply to any living person tbh) in the vein suggested would be a legal nightmare, human rights activists would have a field day on it. If someone is legally a citizen of a certain country, they surely must be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else living in the same society, to do otherwise on the basis of them having a different enthic background would surely have to be consrued as being overtly racist, irrespective of all other considerations.

Last time I brought this up either fertang or z quoted a piece of legislation which means that sports teams are allowed to discriminate based on place of birth etc, although I still think preventing a British citizen from representing Great Britain, England, Scotland or whoever on the basis of where they were born would be treading on some dodgy legal ground.

 

[LegionOfBrad]

Can someone explain if there is a difference between someone like Tahir, who has done his time and now naturalised as a Saffa. And someone such as Pietersen who has i believe an English mum?

Do they come under the same rules, ie did KP have to spend time here (i know he did but did he have to as i think he ould have got a UK PP)?

 

[Jacknife]

KP had to play County Cricket for 4 years to qualify, same as Trott. His mother being English gave him eligibility to play for England but he still had to do the qualification period.

 

[ganeshran]

No, England cant play with 6 players in the side

 

[Howe_zat]

Where you were born, as a general rule, doesn't really have much impact on how much you are and/or people perceive you to be part of a particular country. Compare, say, Nasser Hussain to Darren Pattinson.

 

[ganeshran]

Wonder if BCCI can convince some good bowlers to come play for us.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Where you were born, as a general rule, doesn't really have much impact on how much you are and/or people perceive you to be part of a particular country. Compare, say, Nasser Hussain to Darren Pattinson.

Yeah, I think upbringing is the key. Although born in Madras (as was) to an Indian dad, Nass is "English" (quote-unquote) in a way the likes of Pattinson, Symonds and Mullally aren't, despite the latter three all being English by birth. You only have to hear the Essex in his vowels.

With Pattinson we definitely applied the letter rather than the spirit of the eligibility rules.

 

[Prince EWS]

Can someone explain if there is a difference between someone like Tahir, who has done his time and now naturalised as a Saffa. And someone such as Pietersen who has i believe an English mum?

Do they come under the same rules, ie did KP have to spend time here (i know he did but did he have to as i think he ould have got a UK PP)?

KP had to play County Cricket for 4 years to qualify, same as Trott. His mother being English gave him eligibility to play for England but he still had to do the qualification period.

England actually has its own set of eligibility rules that are stricter than the ICC laws on the matter.

 

[Furball]

Wonder if BCCI can convince some good bowlers to come play for us.

That's not how it works.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Pakistan could get some Afghans like Hamid Hasan. The guy has played for Pak domestic all his career.

 

[Migara]

Enforcing any sort of quota on "import" players (which is a ridiculous term to apply to any living person tbh) in the vein suggested would be a legal nightmare, human rights activists would have a field day on it. If someone is legally a citizen of a certain country, they surely must be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else living in the same society, to do otherwise on the basis of them having a different ethnic background would surely have to be consrued as being overtly racist, irrespective of all other considerations.

American president's f\post is doing fine.

 

[sledger]

American president's f\post is doing fine.

Er...ok. That doesn't change make what I said even slightly less true, however.

 

[Hurricane]

Enforcing any sort of quota on "import" players (which is a ridiculous term to apply to any living person tbh) in the vein suggested would be a legal nightmare, human rights activists would have a field day on it. If someone is legally a citizen of a certain country, they surely must be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else living in the same society, to do otherwise on the basis of them having a different ethnic background would surely have to be consrued as being overtly racist, irrespective of all other considerations.

I don't think it is racist to ban people from your outside of your country who have the same ethnicity as your main population from playing from your cricket team. Maybe if you banned everyone from the subcontinent from playing for England this would be racist.

I didn't really want to end up in a debate with the English posters as I didn't want to put you on the spot. I was using Canada as my main example for this thread.

In terms of legal activists having a field day though. Why has Basketball been able to apply this rule - why has it not been overturned in the courts for unfair practices.

 

[sledger]

I don't think it is racist to ban people from your outside of your country who have the same ethnicity as your main population from playing from your cricket team. Maybe if you banned everyone from the subcontinent from playing for England this would be racist.

What? If they are from outside your country they surely cannot have the same enthnicity! Ethnicity isn't a synonym for skin colour.

And I have no idea about the basketball rules to which you are referring.

 

[Hurricane]

What? If they are from outside your country they surely cannot have the same enthnicity! Ethnicity isn't a synonym for skin colour.

And I have no idea about the basketball rules to which you are referring.

I have always considered that Indian people from NZ share the same ethnic group as indian people from India.

Wikipedia gives two different defintions one supports my view the second yours as it references a common homeland.

I will dig up the basketball eligibility rule in Google.