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Trott or Not
- Thread starter ganeshran
- Start date
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I'm not sure I'd want to overburden Bairstow just yet. It looks as if he might be another potential finisher which has been a problem for us in ODIs for some time. I'll be honest and say I haven't seen a lot of his keeping, but the reports I've read suggest batting is his stronger suit.
It's not like we're short of options either; Buttler or Davies are both arguably good enough to make the ODI side on their batting alone so are live possibilities.
Kieswetter doesn't seem have the range of shot to be an effective pinch hitter (almost totally an off side player), struggles to rotate the strike when the big shot isn't on, has a tendency to chase wide balls & his keeping was Akmalesque in the third ODI. Unless there's a huge upturn in the next two games, I think it's time to say "thanks for coming" for now.
It's not like we're short of options either; Buttler or Davies are both arguably good enough to make the ODI side on their batting alone so are live possibilities.
Kieswetter doesn't seem have the range of shot to be an effective pinch hitter (almost totally an off side player), struggles to rotate the strike when the big shot isn't on, has a tendency to chase wide balls & his keeping was Akmalesque in the third ODI. Unless there's a huge upturn in the next two games, I think it's time to say "thanks for coming" for now.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
I think England should look to play this line up as their first choice ODI XI:
Cook
KP
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Bairstow (wk)
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn
12th player (spinner in conditions favoring them or seamer in others)
If that last player is either Patel or Bresnan, then England have plenty of batting depth as well and potentially one of the world's best batting line ups 1 to 5.
Cook
KP
Trott
Bell
Morgan
Bairstow (wk)
Broad
Swann
Anderson
Finn
12th player (spinner in conditions favoring them or seamer in others)
If that last player is either Patel or Bresnan, then England have plenty of batting depth as well and potentially one of the world's best batting line ups 1 to 5.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
oops.. meant the 11th and 12th player there.. must stop posting off iphone
SamSawnoff
U19 Vice-Captain
But Ian Bell isn't one of the best one day batsmen in the world, not even close. He's not in England's best one day batsmen either. 100 matches at an sr of 73 can tell you that.. This year Kieswetter has a better record than him and he's only been up to much against India at home.
Why confuse test match batting ability with one day ability?
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
If you would have started highlighting from a few words prior, you would see I said "potentially".. And yeah, I still think Bell has plenty of potential as an ODI batsman and his recent confidence from the tests will make him a better ODI player than he was earlier....
Jacknife
International Captain
The only problem with Trott is he just can't seem to up his scoring rate when needed, even when we've got wickets in hand he struggles to do so and more often than not when he tries it he get's out. The main problem this series is that the openers have failed to give the team a platform and the batsmen have apart from the 3rd game, constantly lost wickets from stupid mistakes. The problem really shows up when we've been set a large total and Trott always expects the other batsmen to take the risks, even when they're new to the crease, which causes problems.
Personally and I've said it for a bit I'd have KP open with Cook, he only had a few games at it in the WC but I could see real possibilities with him in that position. Bell's the other option but he's just doesn't score quick enough and atm his S/R is worse than Trott's.
I'll be interested to see what happens with Stokes especially when he's fit to bowl, which should be soon and hopefully at the very least the we should be able to discard Bopara.
With Morgan & Broad back fit will sort a few problems out but over the next 12 months there will be places up for grabs. Keeper/batsmen, we need to go in another direction and not necessarily one that opens. I know Davies is a opener who could get another chance but maybe French can work with both Bairstow & Buttler and get their keeping up to scratch and bat them down the order.
Personally and I've said it for a bit I'd have KP open with Cook, he only had a few games at it in the WC but I could see real possibilities with him in that position. Bell's the other option but he's just doesn't score quick enough and atm his S/R is worse than Trott's.
I'll be interested to see what happens with Stokes especially when he's fit to bowl, which should be soon and hopefully at the very least the we should be able to discard Bopara.
With Morgan & Broad back fit will sort a few problems out but over the next 12 months there will be places up for grabs. Keeper/batsmen, we need to go in another direction and not necessarily one that opens. I know Davies is a opener who could get another chance but maybe French can work with both Bairstow & Buttler and get their keeping up to scratch and bat them down the order.
Burgey
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Kieswetter doesn't rotate the strike. I see that as his biggest problem opening up.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Yep, there's no use hitting one big shot an over if that's all you're doing when you get the strike.
kingjulian
U19 12th Man
Two things..
1. Stating Ian Bell's career average to dismiss the possibility of him having a role in the ODI line up is pointless. He was not much of a Test batsman till a couple of years ago as well. The man has clearly turned a corner and should be measured with his recent record. Not based on how ****e he was in his career earlier on. He plays his shots, and he is in form. It's just rubbish selection to leave him out of the line-up really.
2. Criticism on Trott's strike rate is also way off the mark. Rahul Dravid, faced a smililar criticism earlier on in his career, and even had a form slump in Tests as a result of being called a shot-less-wonder. I hope the same doesn't happen to Trott. Eventually Rahul Dravid managed to find himself a place in the team and managed to work through his problem. He doesn't need to score at run-a-ball to maintain his place. He just needs to be a bit more industrious after crossing 60 or 70. So long as he is being consistent, i'd easily have him in the team and let him work through the problem. Sometimes a Captain and Coach have to make a long-term call like that. Just after a world-cup is exactly the time to make those kinds of calls. Good call here by the "England Team Director" (talk about pretentious job titles!!!.....****!)
1. Stating Ian Bell's career average to dismiss the possibility of him having a role in the ODI line up is pointless. He was not much of a Test batsman till a couple of years ago as well. The man has clearly turned a corner and should be measured with his recent record. Not based on how ****e he was in his career earlier on. He plays his shots, and he is in form. It's just rubbish selection to leave him out of the line-up really.
2. Criticism on Trott's strike rate is also way off the mark. Rahul Dravid, faced a smililar criticism earlier on in his career, and even had a form slump in Tests as a result of being called a shot-less-wonder. I hope the same doesn't happen to Trott. Eventually Rahul Dravid managed to find himself a place in the team and managed to work through his problem. He doesn't need to score at run-a-ball to maintain his place. He just needs to be a bit more industrious after crossing 60 or 70. So long as he is being consistent, i'd easily have him in the team and let him work through the problem. Sometimes a Captain and Coach have to make a long-term call like that. Just after a world-cup is exactly the time to make those kinds of calls. Good call here by the "England Team Director" (talk about pretentious job titles!!!.....****!)
Jacknife
International Captain
You do know that Bell has played 28 one day games in the last 2 years in the period where he has become a better Test player and in that time he has shown that he is not a very good one day player. You come to those conclusions from watching every game England play, which is probably where those so called rubbish selections have been made and why he hasn't been picked so far on this tour.
What he's done in Test cricket has zero to do with what he's doing in one day cricket because he has proved it hasn't by performing poorly.
sunilreddy
Banned
With Cook and Trott batting in top three you can not expect England to win on flat tracks.
Scores around 325 are easily chasable in modern day Cricket and if these two players bat together for 30 overs they can not go past 280.
Scores around 325 are easily chasable in modern day Cricket and if these two players bat together for 30 overs they can not go past 280.
ljinko888
School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Agree. The selectors seem to be intent on having our own Gilchrist at the top of the order. We've had Davies who didn't look to bad but dropped and not back since. We haven't had a fluent ODI opener since Trescothick. I say get a proper batsmen opening (Buttler, Bell) and give Bairstow/Buttler the gloves or for Kieswetter to work on being a specialist batsman. His keeping has improved but sadly isn't good enough.
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Definetly think Buttler should be in the side at 6 or 7 as a batsman alone but can only assume that given Kieswetter takes the gloves over him at Someret that his keeping not good enough yet which is a shame.
Strauss was certainly a fluent ODI batmsan in the latter part of his career but do take your point. He has a lot of work to do yet and am certainly not calling for his selection by any means but do think that James Vince has the potential to be an excllent one day opener.
Strauss was certainly a fluent ODI batmsan in the latter part of his career but do take your point. He has a lot of work to do yet and am certainly not calling for his selection by any means but do think that James Vince has the potential to be an excllent one day opener.
flibbertyjibber
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Since Trott came into the side he has been our most consistant player in tests and one dayers. Let him anchor the innings in one day cricket as you always need a guy to do that and the others can play more aggressively around him. The current team isn't good enough to win one day matches away so why remove one of the few plus points we have in the side?
intcricket
U19 12th Man
He needs to develop a repertoire of shots. Players like him who've done so have put all the critics to rest. Cases in point being Rahul Dravid and Michael Hussey.