New feature: Tendulkar Better Than Bradman? Surely Not!

[chasingthedon]

CW's Dave Wilson puts the cat firmly among the pigeons with a look at batting impact and longevity.

Cricket Web - Features: Tendulkar Better Than Bradman? Surely Not!

 

[The Sean]

"However, as this shows Tendulkar at the top we may be getting some way to nailing down an objective measure of his greatness."

There isn't much objectivity in that statement to be fair, though I may be misunderstanding you. It seems that you're saying that because it has Tendulkar at number one, it's a better rating than the many other types of ranking or rating that has him lower down.

I'm a big fan of your work so no offence here, but this article seems to be drawn from the Vijay Sharma school of inventing a system that ensures Tendulkar at the top. Particularly when we see that all of the other highest rated batsmen according to this formula happen to be Tendulkar's contemporaries.

 

[chasingthedon]

"However, as this shows Tendulkar at the top we may be getting some way to nailing down an objective measure of his greatness."

There isn't much objectivity in that statement to be fair, though I may be misunderstanding you. It seems that you're saying that because it has Tendulkar at number one, it's a better rating than the many other types of ranking or rating that has him lower down.

I'm a big fan of your work so no offence here, but this article seems to be drawn from the Vijay Sharma school of inventing a system that ensures Tendulkar at the top. Particularly when we see that all of the other highest rated batsmen according to this formula happen to be Tendulkar's contemporaries.

Understandable comment - when I did the original article looking at actual wins, I noticed that some batsmen (Tendulkar being just one of them) were under-represented as many of their best performances were in draws.

So I made this investigation, which happened to show Tendulkar top as far as total expected wins. When I posted it for comment, it was suggested to me that it would be more interesting to make it a Tendulkar vs Bradman-camp scenario, which in hindsight does undermine the validity of the findings somewhat.

However, I do feel that the measure is valid nonetheless. Just stated somewhat tabloid-like here.

As to his contemporaries being up there, I think that's more to do with sheer weight of Tests played.

Thanks for your comments on my work in general, by the way.

 

[The Sean]

Understandable comment - when I did the original article looking at actual wins, I noticed that some batsmen (Tendulkar being just one of them) were under-represented as many of their best performances were in draws.

So I made this investigation, which happened to show Tendulkar top as far as total expected wins. When I posted it for comment, it was suggested to me that it would be more interesting to make it a Tendulkar vs Bradman-camp scenario, which in hindsight does undermine the validity of the findings somewhat.

However, I do feel that the measure is valid nonetheless. Just stated somewhat tabloid-like here.

As to his contemporaries being up there, I think that's more to do with sheer weight of Tests played.

Thanks for your comments on my work in general, by the way.

Fair enough mate. Yeah, I think the nature of the measure means that those players with a big number of Tests are going to end up at the top (which, Bradman excepted, is pretty much what happened) but as always I'm impressed with the effort you put into these things - always interesting reading.

 

[GotSpin]

I always like to read an article that picks out certain stats to put Tendulkar at the top.

Enlightening read

 

[Burgey]

The batsman with the most all time influence would be Grace, wouldn't it? Wasn't he the first to combine front and back foot play?

Good read mate. Interesting stuff.

 

[honestbharani]

As with most stats based analysis, it is pretty flawed but it is a refreshing way of looking at greatness amongst batsmen, so kudos for that.

 

[turnstyle]

Just out of curiosity, was Sunny ever compared to the Don back in his day? He's a little bit before my time but i just recall a lot of people comparing Gavaskar and Tendulkar over the years rather than this recent obsession with comparing him to Bradman. If anything, it shows how good Bradman really was if he's being compared to all these 'greats' 60+ years after he retired.

 

[Ikki]

I like your articles, almost always, but if I didn't know it was you writing I'd think the author was taking the piss.

I find this statement:

What I've tried to do here is show that there is an objective measure of greatness, other than averages and run aggregates, which illustrates just how special Tendulkar is.

particularly cringeworthy given the introduction about how people tend to use stats as a crutch rather than to be 'illuminating'.

For me, Tendulkar is in the tier behind Bradman along with Sobers, Richards, Chappell, Lara, Ponting, Hobbs, etc. For me, his records re aggregate runs, 100s, etc, stop meaning much at a certain point. I think he has had a fantastic career, even if I do think he was somewhat fortunate in the circumstances that made such longevity possible.

 

[Cevno]

Pretty well written article.

Don't agree with such stats based methods most of the time though.

 

[Burgey]

Just out of curiosity, was Sunny ever compared to the Don back in his day? He's a little bit before my time but i just recall a lot of people comparing Gavaskar and Tendulkar over the years rather than this recent obsession with comparing him to Bradman. If anything, it shows how good Bradman really was if he's being compared to all these 'greats' 60+ years after he retired.

Never. He wasn't by any means even universally regarded as the greatest batsman of his era while he was playing.

For reasons I'm unable to fathom, his status seems to grow year by year.

 

[Prince EWS]

It's massively biased to playing in eras where Tests are more common. The second last chart entitled "best of their time" you have on that article is by far the most interesting and accurate IMO.

 

[The Sean]

Some dead set shockers on the comments page, to be expected I suppose.