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View Poll Results: Playing First Class vs Test Tour Experience

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  • Yes, take them on tour

    4 44.44%
  • No, complete waste of time

    2 22.22%
  • No, because it is too risky if a player goes down

    1 11.11%
  • Adam Werrity

    2 22.22%
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Thread: Playing First Class vs Test Tour Experience

  1. #1
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Playing First Class vs Test Tour Experience

    A topic that comes up frequently and in most cases the consensus appears to be against giving younger players a potential 3 week holiday and be exposed to the elite of the nation in training when they could be plying their trade in the domestic competition.

    So what are some of the issues that crop up:

    For
    -Learn about working away from home for an extended period, you will need to develop a good routine to make it at the top level.
    -Homeostasis, I think we can all attest to times when we have been in the presence of an 'expert' and learnt something new about a fundamental. They often have tacit knowledge of this that is passed on via demonstration, staying at FC level doesn't provide this option. (WI may be an example, no shortage of ATGs but words alone can't keep the tradition alive).
    -Sports Psychology has moved on from the 'guts and determination' era towards new positions on performance management. Every sport in the world now looks to develop juniors differently than before so it isn't just about being 'worthy' as we once understood the term. AFL a classic example, kids with greater ability are chosen over older average players because a good system taps into potential, in time this process leads to a stronger overall side.
    -FC cricket 'ain't what she used to be'
    -Plenty of cases of players who got their big break before their time, this whole issue partly fueled by the neurosis of the 'stats' men who want to break careers into mk.I II and III and engage in battles over their pet player.

    Against
    -Could be wasting time with this player.
    -Sends a bad signal to other players in the FC comp who are putting up the numbers but are overlooked for various reasons.
    -An injury could lead to a team being caught out in a vital test.
    -Steve Smith FTW!
    -Places a lot of pressure on a youngster to perform when arriving back home, may stiffle career.
    -Time in the middle is the life of a cricketer, competiting is how to develop.

    On balance I think I am in favour of bringing a player across on a shorter tour during a home summer. Has to be balanced against injury proneness of the first XI.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    This relates directly to Cummins and Patinson I gather?

    I don't mind them going tbh. Both are young, and it's a long summer. If they are with the national side but not bowling loads of overs early in our season, it may help them get through the season injury-free.

    The downside is they're "learning" from the likes of Johnson and Siddle.
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  3. #3
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Depends on the circumstances.
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  4. #4
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    What you don't want is the young player being dragged everywhere and playing no cricket for ages which happened to Jimmy Anderson for us and then when he was given the rare chance he was totally out of rhythm and got crucified by opposition and then the press.

    Need to get the balance right, maybe taking players on tours when it is out of the Aussie season for experience is a better way of doing it than them missing games at home which would help their development. It is situations like this when you need to trust the selection panel to do the right thing, not very often though in recent times that the Aussie fans have had much faith in the selectors.


  5. #5
    International Coach Cabinet96's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say it would be a complete waste of time, but I would say that it would be better for them to be playing first class cricket. If there wasn't any first class cricket someone could play I think they should tour.
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  6. #6
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    What you don't want is the young player being dragged everywhere and playing no cricket for ages which happened to Jimmy Anderson for us and then when he was given the rare chance he was totally out of rhythm and got crucified by opposition and then the press.

    Need to get the balance right, maybe taking players on tours when it is out of the Aussie season for experience is a better way of doing it than them missing games at home which would help their development. It is situations like this when you need to trust the selection panel to do the right thing, not very often though in recent times that the Aussie fans have had much faith in the selectors.
    Fair point. Dragging Rashid around for a couple of full winter tours with little to no chance of cricket hasn't exactly advanced his career either. In fact he's dropped in the pecking order.

    Ditto Swann, actually. Toured SA as far back as 99/00 then dropped off the radar.

    We're a bit of a special case tho as we rarely tour anywhere when our FC season is in progress.
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  7. #7
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    likewise for moises henriques

    if cummins had played more than 3 games i might support. but as it stands, i can't. i don't see what bowling in the nets will teach that bowling in full blown competition won't
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  8. #8
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Fair point. Dragging Rashid around for a couple of full winter tours with little to no chance of cricket hasn't exactly advanced his career either. In fact he's dropped in the pecking order.

    Ditto Swann, actually. Toured SA as far back as 99/00 then dropped off the radar.

    We're a bit of a special case tho as we rarely tour anywhere when our FC season is in progress.
    Yeah but Anderson was going round as 12th man in tests and ODI's at home for a long time without playing any matches as well. Messed him up totally.

    As for Rashid, he is still young enough to come back, had a poor season after a promising start but that can happen to young players. We forget he is still only 23.

  9. #9
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    In the end, you have to pick the guys who you want to be playing if there is an injury. Windies 2008 and India 2004, where we picked a spinner to gain some experience and then found ourselves caught short when something unexpected happened, showed that.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    It makes a bit more sense in the off-season; I'll wager that there were a few people who would have welcomed the chance for a closer look at James Pattinson in Sri Lanka.

    During the season it makes no sense. Cummings has played 3 FC games. If you think he has talent, surely the place to prove it is playing for New South Wales?
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  11. #11
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    There's no one size fits all answer, but being on tour around test quality players and training with test quality players in a foreign country, receiving (supposedly) the best coaching in the country will advance you far more than a couple of FC matches.
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  12. #12
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    If we're talking Cummins specifically, the bloke is younger than 20. He has plenty of time to play FC cricket. Send him on tour, let him be around experienced test cricketers and pick up a few pointers that he can then take back with him to FC cricket and work on.

    Can't teach an old dog new tricks, so teach it to them when they're young.


    Can't help but laugh at the inconsistencies in some people though. Whinging because young fast bowlers go down with injuries due to over working them. Then whinging when they get taken on tour because they're not bowling enough.

  13. #13
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    If we're talking Cummins specifically, the bloke is younger than 20. He has plenty of time to play FC cricket. Send him on tour, let him be around experienced test cricketers and pick up a few pointers that he can then take back with him to FC cricket and work on.

    Can't teach an old dog new tricks, so teach it to them when they're young.


    Can't help but laugh at the inconsistencies in some people though. Whinging because young fast bowlers go down with injuries due to over working them. Then whinging when they get taken on tour because they're not bowling enough.
    Not whinging as such about that, just you need to get the balance right. No point in the same guy being 12th man in both test and one dayers and not actually playing a match at home for a couple of months which is what happened to Anderson.

    As for players being overbowled, in some sides they are. There is no way with the amount of cricket sides like England, India and Australia play that a pace bowler in particular can play all the matches in all forms of the game month in month out year in year out as they will breakdown or lose form due to exhaustion. That is a fact not a moan.

  14. #14
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    There's alot more that goes on behind the scenes of a test tour that the general public don't see. It's not like they don't bowl and work on things on tour. It isn't a holiday.

  15. #15
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    No but all players say that overs in the nets are nothing like ones in the middle.

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